Residential fridge over furnace in 2004 Diplomat DST (1.5 bath)

[Robin_M]

Originally Posted by Lars99

ok, F & P is ordered, Norcold on Craigslist. Will also try putting on Ebay. Will start looking for a dedicated inverter to run off my existing battery bank.

Depending on your current configuration, you may want to wait on the dedicated inverter. I replaced my Norcold with the Samsung 197 and I find that it runs just fine with my original Magnum 2000w MSW inverter while we are underway. (All I've got to do is to remember to turn the inverter on.) According to this thread and others, the F&P residential refer also works OK with an MSW inverter.

[Robin_M]

Originally Posted by nodine

Some have had good luck putting the Norcold on Craigslist or Ebay.

Bob

Since these things have a known history of overheating and starting a fire, I'd be a little afraid to do that from a liability standpoint. Same concern I would have if trying to sell a kit car or a kit aircraft that I'd built. I know the Norcold was not an "owner built" unit, but still it has a known safety defect. So given the history of seemingly unreasonable liability verdicts in our court system, I would have to think about privately selling the thing.

[Winepress]

There is a market for the Norcold for people that are living off the grid. That's how I sold mine. The freezer door definitely needs to be secured, it will open....at the worst time. I did the L bracket thing and it works just fine. For the refer doors, I use a 1inch Velcro strap. I put the strap on the steering wheel when I arrive at my camp spot as a reminder to re- secure the doors.

[Robin_M]

Originally Posted by PushedAround

I just finished installing a F&P refrigerator in my Tiffin. It was tight, but fit perfectly above the heater. BTW it has the same inverter controlled compressor as the Samsung and will run perfectly on an MSW inverter.

Larry,

By "inverter controlled compressor" are you saying that the F&P and the Samsung have an internal inverter? I read somewhere in another thread that the Samsung unit has an internal converter/inverter to change the incoming 120 volts to DC, and then changes it back to AC before sending the power to the compressor. This is supposedly why these units work fine with an MSW inverter in an RV or boat. I've not found anything on this in the manual, so I am wondering if anyone can quote a source for this information if that is indeed the way they work.

[PushedAround]

The inverter is not internal, it is an external module that modifies the frequency of the power to the compressor. That is why a modified sine wave inverter does not affect these units, because the power is "re-modified" by the onboard inverter. You will probably not see anything about that in a users manual. For verification, I looked at my unit, saw the inverter and it is written on the compressor - 230v freq 50 to 150 hz which is clearly impossible on standard 120v 60 hz power without first running it through an inverter.

[Lars99]

Originally Posted by tkcas01

I've seen some good posts on here about replacing the Norcold 1200 with the Samsung 197 french door unit. My 1200 belched ammonia this weekend, so time for an upgrade.

Thing is, like many others there is a furnace under the fridge. I measured and from the ceiling to the top of the furnace is 68.5". To complicate, there is a fluorescent light in the ceiling the doors must clear (about 1/2"). So, I believe the Samsung is out of the question, even with the wheels off.

I see the Fisher & Paykel is 67.5" total. Anyone know if the wheels can come off that unit to make it a bit shorter?

Further, would it be feasible to create a new subfloor for the fridge "around" the furnace in such a way that the top of the furnace is flush with or even a bit higher than the surrounding subfloor?

What I am wondering is if there is additional clearance underneath the center of the fridge, assuming the wheels/feet are along the outer edges? If so, the fridge "feet" could actually be a bit below the top of the furnace. Still, not sure you'd want the furnace and fridge that close together... Thoughts?

I have the same set up as you. The only fridge I see that may possibly work is the Fisher Paykel. Without the feet and rollers, I measured it to 66 1/2" to the top of the hinge covers. I have very close to that. I think that if I build a frame in steel or aluminum box tubing I can keep the height restriction to a minimum. I just hate to take everything apart and see that I can't get it to fit. Pricy fridge too but if its the only choice, so be it. Where are you with making this decision?

[Robin_M]

Originally Posted by PushedAround

The inverter is not internal, it is an external module that modifies the frequency of the power to the compressor. That is why a modified sine wave inverter does not affect thI amse units, because the power is "re-modified" by the onboard inverter. You will probably not see anything about that in a users manual. For verification, I looked at my unit, saw the inverter and it is written on the compressor - 230v freq 50 to 150 hz which is clearly impossible on standard 120v 60 hz power without first running it through an inverter.

Larry,
Thanks much for the explanation and your taking the time to look at it.. A little confused by what you mean by "external module", though. I am assuming that you do NOT mean that this inverter is an external piece of equipment that has to be installed along with the refrigerator. I am assuming that the refer comes with the inverter already installed somewhere within the outer shell of the unit, probably behind the lower back panel. Right?

[PushedAround]

Originally Posted by Robin_M

Larry,
Thanks much for the explanation and your taking the time to look at it.. A little confused by what you mean by "external module", though. I am assuming that you do NOT mean that this inverter is an external piece of equipment that has to be installed along with the refrigerator. I am assuming that the refer comes with the inverter already installed somewhere within the outer shell of the unit, probably behind the lower back panel. Right?

Exactly, mine is placed right next to the compressor which is also behind the back panel. It is a small rectangular box, a little larger than a computer external harddrive. It allows the compressor to speed up or slow down in response to the requirement for cooling. Much more efficient than just turning it on or off.

[Robin_M]

Larry, Thanks again. And it makes perfect sense as these F&P and the Samsung refers are sold all over the world where the parameters for power sources will vary greatly.

[nodine]

Originally Posted by Robin_M

Since these things have a known history of overheating and starting a fire, I'd be a little afraid to do that from a liability standpoint. Same concern I would have if trying to sell a kit car or a kit aircraft that I'd built. I know the Norcold was not an "owner built" unit, but still it has a known safety defect. So given the history of seemingly unreasonable liability verdicts in our court system, I would have to think about privately selling the thing.

Robin,

I had the same concern and that is why I did not sell my Norcold but instead parted it out and gave the parts away. I made sure the cooling unit went to the scrap metal dump as that is the part that fails and releases ammonium gas. Many others have choose to sell theirs is why I suggested Craigslist or Ebay. I guess one could always draft an agreement that the buyer must sign releasing the seller from any liability due to failure of the Norcold.

Bob

[nodine]

Originally Posted by Robin_M

Depending on your current configuration, you may want to wait on the dedicated inverter. I replaced my Norcold with the Samsung 197 and I find that it runs just fine with my original Magnum 2000w MSW inverter while we are underway. (All I've got to do is to remember to turn the inverter on.) According to this thread and others, the F&P residential refer also works OK with an MSW inverter.

I agree with Robin. We have had the Samsung RF197 installed for over 2 1/2 years. For the first 2 years we only had four six volt house batteries and the MSW Inverter. We never had any trouble but did not do any dry camping. Early last fall I installed two more house batteries for a total of six along with the battery monitoring system from Magnum. We have driven all day with the generator off and the batteries were still over 90 % charged. By the way, we never turn the inverter off. We rely on the AGS to start the generator if for some reason the batteries get down to 75 %. This is a work in progress for me and my next step is to install solar panels on the roof and an MPPT charger system.

Bob

[Robin_M]

Originally Posted by PushedAround

The inverter is not internal, it is an external module that modifies the frequency of the power to the compressor. That is why a modified sine wave inverter does not affect these units, because the power is "re-modified" by the onboard inverter. You will probably not see anything about that in a users manual. For verification, I looked at my unit, saw the inverter and it is written on the compressor - 230v freq 50 to 150 hz which is clearly impossible on standard 120v 60 hz power without first running it through an inverter.

Larry,

That is true of the Fisher & Paskyl, since that is the unit you have. But "Winepress" (another RF197 owner) pointed out in another thread that there is no inverter unit anywhere in the Samsung and that the schematic in the service manual shows the compressor being fed directly by the incoming AC current. I now have a copy of the service manual myself and he is correct. Do you (or anyone else) know what it is about the Samsung RF197 that allows it to operate with a MSW inverter while others do not? Certainly there is no one reporting any problems doing that.

[Thadaway]

Hi tkcas01- I came across your post & wanted to ask if you were successful in taking your Norcold refrigerator out & replacing with a residential? We have the same situation right now & are looking to replace but the Samsung or other refrigerators that have been used by others is too tall to go over our furnace. I'm looking at the Fisher Paykel since it is a little shorter then the others. Any info you can provide would be a great help. Thanks.

Rich & Terrie Hadaway
2004 Diplomat
Fulltimer

[tricotec]

Originally Posted by Thadaway

Hi tkcas01- I came across your post & wanted to ask if you were successful in taking your Norcold refrigerator out & replacing with a residential? We have the same situation right now & are looking to replace but the Samsung or other refrigerators that have been used by others is too tall to go over our furnace. I'm looking at the Fisher Paykel since it is a little shorter then the others. Any info you can provide would be a great help. Thanks.

Rich & Terrie Hadaway
2004 Diplomat
Fulltimer

We replaced the NoCold in our 2005 Windsor with the Samsung RF197. 1 1/2 years later our Samsung works great on our original inverter with NO modifications to the electrical system. It is true that the refrigerator will not fit with the existing shelf above the furnace. However, many people including us, have had the shelf lowered, with a corresponding modification of the wooden grill under the fridge. If the current Samsung model has the same dimensions as the RF197 you won't have any trouble getting the unit to fit.

Two shops that are known to do a great and speedy job doing this upgrade are: Elite Repair & Remodel Llc, Harrisburg, OR (Former Monaco Employees - they did ours and they are GREAT) and Alliance Coach in Wildwood FL (a former Monaco facility)

I'm pretty sure the dimensions of your refrigerator and the furnace below are similar to our RV. This is doable and you won't be sorry. Our Samsung refrigerator is big, cold and awesome looking.

One note...the "big boy" solenoid that cross-connects the coach and chassis batteries is essential to allow the alternator to power the fridge when on the road, and is a frequent component that fails. Elite looked at it due to their experience when we replaced our fridge and found it bad....be sure you get it checked when you do yours.

GOOD LUCK!