Steering Box Play- Sheppard M100 SHIM or Swap for a TRW ?

[CrazyKnight]

Originally Posted by jrheick

Hmm. Thanks for the responses Dennis & Craig.

I did contact Weller yesterday morning. The info I provided Weller included the Sheppard steering gear part number, and the hydraulic pump manufacturer with part number. I didn't request a specific Pitman arm.

This is an edited response of the reply I received from John Vanlaan, "Hello James, Although we have not sold as many of the Sheppard to TRW changeover gears for the HD94 PQ3, We have done a few. The TRW gear you would need is

-TAS65 with a Spec1 of 66003
-Pitman arm number: 84242502

The pump you currently have should still work just fine with the swap. Please read the RV swap instructions and make sure your shop/mechanic is also aware of what is needed to accurately make the swap. Understand that we have not done the swap ourselves, but have supplied the parts requested by members of the IRV2 Forum."

I'll follow-up with John about the Pitman arm. Maybe Weller does have a previous parts order for a 40 foot 2012 Knight.

Your parts are the same as mine. I am aware of 7 2011 and later HD94 PQ31 SWAPS. Would take me 4 hours MAX ! I have "assisted" with 3 HD94"s.

SWAP ON !! (if you want too)

Craig

[laheze]

My old Sheppard steering gear is a M100 AUTOMATIC PPN 31
MY needed exchange parts needed are TRW, TAS65 052, Pitman arm 84242502

I finished my istallation of a TRW today in a rain storm. Funny how little things can trip you up some times.
I started on Monday afternoon by taking the steering rod/drag link off and tying it up out of the way. I took the hydraulic lines loose and let them run into a clear rectangular plastic dishpan like thing my wife had in the coach. Once they were finished dripping for the most part i put a piece of blue shop paper towels into the end of the hoses stuck the hose end into sandwich bags, pulled the baggies snug against the protruding paper towels in the hose fittingd and wrapped two bread bag wires together to make a longer wire that would reach around the hydraulic lines and wirapped over baggie and hose to hold in place. Next was to unbolt the steering whell shaft from the top of the steering gear. Once the gear box was unbolted and moved out of the way I used Craigs plywood idea to mark the old Sheppard steering gear maximum pitman arm travel in both directions marking the maximum end travel on both ends of the arcing travel Path. I used a measuring tape to find the center of the arc line (sheppard pitman arm arc) and marked a center line across the arc line.
I traced around the Sheppard bolt up holes. I was lazy and didnt bolt it to the plywood. I set the new TRW steering gear on the board without moving either input or output splined shafts because I knew Weller had already pre-centered the internal gearing. I lined up the bolt up holes in the TRW with old Sheppard holes drawn onto the plywood. I laid the new TRW pitman arm big hole end on the new TRW steering gear large output shaft and held it horizontally while I looked down through the other small hole end/drag link bolt hole to find the center line I had previously drawn on the center of the arc line on the plywood. Once I had that center line eyeballed across the center of the hole i was looking down through I pushed the big hole in the pitman arm down onto the large splined output shaft. I left the bolt that Weller Truck Parts includes with the pitman arm out of it at this time in case i had to take it off for some reason, I did not want to clamp it on then spend extra time getting it off.. I decided that since the pitman arm was now centered correctly so that I had half of the travel available in either direction I could now move the pitman arm one way or another if I needed to, just do not move either of those splined shafts until you have your pitman arm on it first and centered of course.
The big butt kicker for me was drilling that 2” hole through the half inch plate with a battery powered drill motor, in my case M18 Milwaukee 1/2” chuck. With my wifes help we took a piece of notebook paper placed it across the
rear side/bolt up side of the TRW steering gear rear side top and bottom holes and also overlapping the adjusting screw. I took my pocket knife and cut a circle out of the paper around the adjusting screw and while my wife held the paper in place I used the bolt up holes to guide my pocket knife to cut out perfect circles in the paper at each of those two bolt up holes. I wrote OUTSIDE on the up side of that paper as we looked down on it while cutting the holes out, then placed that papers OUTSIDE side against the 1/2” plate where the steer gear bolts to. We lined the bolt holes in the paper with the bolt holes on the plate then drew a circle on the plate in the adjusting screw hole in the paper, THATS THE CENTER OF THE 2” hole to be drilled. I used a Milwaukee right angle battery powerd drill to drill the pilot hole in the 1/2” plate from the outside/drivers side direction, the side the steer gear bolts up. I did as others said they did, I pulled the generator out and sat up in the area the generator normally resides in to drill the 2” adjusting screw hole in the 1/2” plate not only so the steer gear can sit down flush on the 1/2” plate for bolt up but to have access for adjustment in the future. I now have bruises across my back from pushing hard against the channel the generator rolls in and out on while drilling the 2” hole in the plate. Ill have to say, that one 2” hole drilling experiencem took longer with battery powerd drills than the whole job. I needed my big heavy duty electric drilling machine to have made it more easily done.
I did this replacement while camping in a field at my annual airshow event I’ve attended for 41 years in Wisconsin.
Next I laid the gear under the edge of the coach, crawled in and laid on my back rolled over grabbed the steering gear lifted it onto my stomach and lifted it up, upside down with the rear bottom hole upward so my wife could slip the first/bottom rear bolt in and put the nut on to secure it, I pivoted the steer gear around and upward into the correct alignment then put the rearward top bolt in next with nut on loosely then last the front top bolt. Next I torqued them all down. My pitman arm was alredy on it at this time because I didnt have enough space to put it on later after the steering gear was bolted in place. I moved the pitman arm just enough to spin the top splined input shaft that the steering wheel shaft attaches on to so the horizontal hold on bolt groove was on the front side. I then could see it from the front opening with the generator pulled out. I placed the steering wheel shaft spline over it, I turned the steering wheel shaft so the vertical clamping split was perpendicular to the horizontal bolt groove. I easily tapped it down onto the splined gearbox input shaft and put the original bolt back into the groove and tightened it back in place. I attached the hydraulic hose fitting on the front side of the steering gear then the hydraulic hose. Next to the rear hydraulic hose fitting and hose attached. I then moved the pitman arm back to where it was before I moved it to attach the steering wheel shaft, pushed the steering drag link into the pitman arm, tightened it down added cotter key then finished except for setting the poppets. All of that part was Tuesday late afternoon. I thought OK ill use the front center jack and lift the front tires off the ground real quick and finish this. Duhhhh I lifted it up was getting ready to finish this all up, then I started the engine to turn the wheels for poppet setting, you already know! The jacks automatically retract when the engine is started to prevent a jack removal exercise!
I just quit for the day, I’m camping out and not in a huge rush for sure but I didnt want to drag it out too long.
Wednesday, today all I had to do is lift the front tires off the ground and turn the wheel all the way right then all the way left to set the poppets in the new to me TRW steering gear and then I would be finished. This morning I messed around cleaning up my tools and restowing them and found a brand new 20 ton bottle jack I had for emergencies. My plan was to place one of these jacks on each side under the big steel axle between the two front tires. I placed lumber down and put the one and only jack on one side to see how easy or hard it would be to lift the one side. No problem, it lifted right up. I went to a very nearby Harbor Freight and purchased one of their 20 ton bottle jacks for the other side. Here is the funny but very irritating part. I needed to move my first jack more towards the center to make sure the boards the jack was sitting on top of wouldnt interfere with the tire as the wheel fully turned each way. I had already lowered the jacks lifting tube down but it wouldnt go all the way down and was now too high for the new wood board position. I turned the bottom control screw out and it still wouldnt go down, I turned that screw out some more, unknown to me a O ring held it in place. I then decided to use the pump handle as a lever outer end under the axle and pipe on top of jack shaft I pushed down real hard and the open close shaft at the bottom of the jack shot out with a pile of hydraulic fluid. I took the jack to my picnic table and started adding more fluid. I messed with that thing for an hour or more, then it started raining. I was really ticked off thinking I should be finished with the change over. I went inside and messed with it. The rain was still coming down. I began to think the ground was going to get wet enough that my limited number of boards would just push down into the ground and not be able to lift the front tires off of the ground. My wife and I in pouring rain went back to harbor freight bought another 20 ton jack. When we arrived back at the coach I got the jack while still pouring rain crawled under the coach and jacked the tires off the ground easily with those two $29.00 jacks, after 20% off. Went inside started engine, let it idle only during this procedure, turned steering wheel full right, full left to set the internal steering gear poppets. Then I turned full one direction went back out and made sure there was plenty of drag link clearance both wheel directions. When i was finished the steering wheel is sitting perfectly straight. That may change when I test drive it but right now it seems perfect. Ill be driving it 12 days from now. If the steering wheel is off a little I’ll adjust it on the way home.

Many thanks to Craig who started all the research to make this change over and anyone who encouraged him to proceed! 🤓

[nodine]

Larry,

Glad you got the swap done. Can't wait for you driving report. Craig did the first one on the dirt yard of his storage area in Atlanta. Your "can-do" attitude reminds me of Craig. You got to love Harbor-Freight. May not be the quality of what comes off a tool truck but sure helps out the home do-it-yourself-er. When we did the electrical wiring on my garage I purchased a Milwaukee M18 Right Angle Hog to drill thru the studs. That is a powerful drill and sure made the job go better.

Bob

[laheze]

Thank you Bob, I have done lots harder and more miserable things in my life but not being at home with all of my tools available made it more challenging but I’m looking forward to the better driving experience. I had already installed the Watts link on the front and X braces on the rear a couple years ago which greatly improved the driving experience. Taking the play out of the steering wheel has to make driving these things things, especially in cross winds, much better. The winds constantly changing pressure easeing up then pressure again is very wearing on the arms with as much dead space play as I had.
I will definitely write a driving report when I drive it the first day. Ill be driving from Oshkosh Wisconsin down to Hot Springs Arkansas. That will be a 820 mile test drive��

[nodine]

Originally Posted by laheze

Thank you Bob, I have done lots harder and more miserable things in my life but not being at home with all of my tools available made it more challenging but I’m looking forward to the better driving experience. I had already installed the Watts link on the front and X braces on the rear a couple years ago which greatly improved the driving experience. Taking the play out of the steering wheel has to make driving these things things, especially in cross winds, much better. The winds constantly changing pressure easeing up then pressure again is very wearing on the arms with as much dead space play as I had.
I will definitely write a driving report when I drive it the first day. Ill be driving from Oshkosh Wisconsin down to Hot Springs Arkansas. That will be a 820 mile test drive��

Larry,

If you have a little motion in the TRW it can be adjusted down to zero. I have mine down to zero and love it. The video you will find online on how to adjust the TRW says to remove the drag link and use your hand to move the Pitman arm. I use Craig's method of not taking the drag link off but instead reach up and move the input shaft from the steering. You can feel if there is any play with that method. Of course you don't want to get it too tight but just enough to remove the dead motion. I adjusted ours while in a campsite in Florida. Had to go to, yep Harbor-Freight, and pick up a pair of Visegrips and a deep well socket. Used the Visegrips to hold the socket and inserted a screwdriver thru the socket to move or hold the adjustment screw.

Bob

[laheze]

Thank you Bob, good info to have.

[CrazyKnight]

Originally Posted by laheze

Thank you Bob, I have done lots harder and more miserable things in my life but not being at home with all of my tools available made it more challenging but I’m looking forward to the better driving experience. I had already installed the Watts link on the front and X braces on the rear a couple years ago which greatly improved the driving experience. Taking the play out of the steering wheel has to make driving these things things, especially in cross winds, much better. The winds constantly changing pressure easeing up then pressure again is very wearing on the arms with as much dead space play as I had.
I will definitely write a driving report when I drive it the first day. Ill be driving from Oshkosh Wisconsin down to Hot Springs Arkansas. That will be a 820 mile test drive��

Nice work ! Love the can do spirit ! The job is always harder away from the home toolbox. Enjoy OSH, wish I was going. My friends departed in their coaches, campers 2 days ago and the DC3 leaves today. Next year ! Just way too much going on this year for the fly-in stars to align.

Glad you did not have to lengthen or shorten the adjustable drag link end to get it to line up with the pitman arm with the TRW centered. A FEW are like that, it just works out. If the steering wheel stays centered after the test drive I will be a bit surprised . Super easy 10 min fix, adjustment.

Looking forward to the driving report !
Safe Travels and enjoy the drive.

SWAP ON !!! (if you want too)

Craig

[laheze]

Originally Posted by CrazyKnight

Nice work ! Love the can do spirit ! The job is always harder away from the home toolbox. Enjoy OSH, wish I was going. My friends departed in their coaches, campers 2 days ago and the DC3 leaves today. Next year ! Just way too much going on this year for the fly-in stars to align.

Glad you did not have to lengthen or shorten the adjustable drag link end to get it to line up with the pitman arm with the TRW centered. A FEW are like that, it just works out. If the steering wheel stays centered after the test drive I will be a bit surprised . Super easy 10 min fix, adjustment.

Looking forward to the driving report !
Safe Travels and enjoy the drive.

SWAP ON !!! (if you want too)

Craig

Craig,
Sorry you missed Oshkosh this year, as usual there were lots of airplanes to see.
Also many friends to visit.
We left there today at 12 noon and my first test drive was 483 miles to where I now am in Missouri. I encountered rough, two lane highways, 4 lane highways, narrow construction zones, side winds, tail winds, 18 wheelers, you name it!!
The no play in the steering wheel is like a miracle! My 2008 Holiday Rambler Endeavor is very easy to steer and drive! In the narrow work zones I was able to easily steer the tires where I wanted them to be. When 18 wheelers blew by me there was no movement in my coach with the solid steering, front Watts system and X braces on rear. I’m probably going to add the rear Watts just Because. After 8 or 9 hours whatever it was of driving I wasn’t tired at all just sleepy from no rest at Oshkosh.
The result was Extremely Positive for my coach, I seriously would not want to go back to the Sheppard, this TRW has given my arms a major break. I will be driving an additional 350 miles tomorrow and much of it on two lane roads.
The effort to change out my steering gear was worth every bit of the time we invested in it! Couldn’t be Happier with the results.
I may add additional comments at the next stop. Craig you guessed it pretty well in that my steering wheel is off center some but was quite comfortable to drive where it is. I’m sure I’ll straighten it out. If I can upload a photo my wife took for me while I drove today, you can see how much it’s off and where I held it. At first it bugged me being off center but over time it didn’t bother me at all.

[nodine]

Originally Posted by laheze

Craig,
Sorry you missed Oshkosh this year, as usual there were lots of airplanes to see.
Also many friends to visit.
We left there today at 12 noon and my first test drive was 483 miles to where I now am in Missouri. I encountered rough, two lane highways, 4 lane highways, narrow construction zones, side winds, tail winds, 18 wheelers, you name it!!
The no play in the steering wheel is like a miracle! My 2008 Holiday Rambler Endeavor is very easy to steer and drive! In the narrow work zones I was able to easily steer the tires where I wanted them to be. When 18 wheelers blew by me there was no movement in my coach with the solid steering, front Watts system and X braces on rear. I’m probably going to add the rear Watts just Because. After 8 or 9 hours whatever it was of driving I wasn’t tired at all just sleepy from no rest at Oshkosh.
The result was Extremely Positive for my coach, I seriously would not want to go back to the Sheppard, this TRW has given my arms a major break. I will be driving an additional 350 miles tomorrow and much of it on two lane roads.
The effort to change out my steering gear was worth every bit of the time we invested in it! Couldn’t be Happier with the results.
I may add additional comments at the next stop. Craig you guessed it pretty well in that my steering wheel is off center some but was quite comfortable to drive where it is. I’m sure I’ll straighten it out. If I can upload a photo my wife took for me while I drove today, you can see how much it’s off and where I held it. At first it bugged me being off center but over time it didn’t bother me at all.

Larry,

Now your coach drives like it should have from the factory. Love it when a plan works out!

The steering wheel is easy to center as I am sure you know. Just remove the plastic cover between the steering wheel and the floor and move the shaft on the spline.

Bob

[laheze]

Originally Posted by nodine

Larry,

Now your coach drives like it should have from the factory. Love it when a plan works out!

The steering wheel is easy to center as I am sure you know. Just remove the plastic cover between the steering wheel and the floor and move the shaft on the spline.

Bob

Thank you Bob,
You are right about the plan falling into place. Started by Craig then finished by each of us.
Today I drove about 350 miles I believe. Again this is my second day with the new steering gear on my 2008 Endeavor. I’m just as impressed and happy about the change over and the better and safer drive ability of my coach now.
Today while towing my 4door Jeep I had to make a sudden drastic stop in a work Zone. Wow, the coach steered straight ahead easily. Before with my steering wheel play a sudden hard braking stop with the play in the steering wheel I used to have, a sudden stop would have the front of the coach moving left Right feeling unstable. Today it worked perfectly, no side to side movement, it just stopped straight way with no left right movement
I think the new steering gear is a safety feature because of all the positive points it brings to the table.
A few of those are ease of steering causing less fatigue on the driver, full control of where the front tires are in tight spaces like between a concrete wall and 18 wheelers in work zones and just steering in general without chaotic situations!
If you are considering changing to the TRW, just do it, you will not regret it.

[CrazyKnight]

Originally Posted by laheze

Thank you Bob,

You are right about the plan falling into place. Started by Craig then finished by each of us.

Today I drove about 350 miles I believe. Again this is my second day with the new steering gear on my 2008 Endeavor. I’m just as impressed and happy about the change over and the better and safer drive ability of my coach now.

Today while towing my 4door Jeep I had to make a sudden drastic stop in a work Zone. Wow, the coach steered straight ahead easily. Before with my steering wheel play a sudden hard braking stop with the play in the steering wheel I used to have, a sudden stop would have the front of the coach moving left Right feeling unstable. Today it worked perfectly, no side to side movement, it just stopped straight way with no left right movement

I think the new steering gear is a safety feature because of all the positive points it brings to the table.

A few of those are ease of steering causing less fatigue on the driver, full control of where the front tires are in tight spaces like between a concrete wall and 18 wheelers in work zones and just steering in general without chaotic situations!

If you are considering changing to the TRW, just do it, you will not regret it.

Thank you for the great write up. I totally agree. Our coach is much safer to drive and much easier to drive for a long period. Having the wheels go where YOU point them and having the coach do what you want it to do is a vast improvement. The addition of the Watts links and rear cross bars makes the coach a completely different coach.

I am REALLY GLAD you are completely satisfied with the TRW swap. Every time I read a write up like yours it reminds me that all of the effort involved to start and refine this process has been totally worth it.

Mike Hughes, Monaco Watts, is the same. We work together now and then and we really enjoy success stories like yours !

Safe and happy travels !

SWAP ON !! (If you want too) [emoji16][emoji16]

Craig

PS. Like Bob said, under the plastic cover between your knees is the splined coupling that will take all of 5 minutes to center your steering wheel. I would leave the cover off, drive the coach and make sure you are centered. I over adjusted the first time [emoji51]

Cheers

[vito.a]

An interesting side note. I was looking at a 2008 Monaco Signature and noticed a Sheppard steering box. Our 2004 has a TRW steering box, but somewhere around 2008 Monaco went to a Sheppard box for an increased wheel turn angle.

From the 2009 brochure:
The R.H. Sheppard power steering box allows for a
50-degree front wheel turn angle in both directions for
better maneuverability and returns the steering wheel to
its center position to eliminate driver fatigue.

[laheze]

Originally Posted by CrazyKnight

Thank you for the great write up. I totally agree. Our coach is much safer to drive and much easier to drive for a long period. Having the wheels go where YOU point them and having the coach do what you want it to do is a vast improvement. The addition of the Watts links and rear cross bars makes the coach a completely different coach.

I am REALLY GLAD you are completely satisfied with the TRW swap. Every time I read a write up like yours it reminds me that all of the effort involved to start and refine this process has been totally worth it.

Mike Hughes, Monaco Watts, is the same. We work together now and then and lyou we really enjoy success stories like yours !

Safe and happy travels !

SWAP ON !! (If you want too) [emoji16][emoji16]

Craig

PS. Like Bob said, under the plastic cover between your knees is the splined coupling that will take all of 5 minutes to center your steering wheel. I would leave the cover off, drive the coach and make sure you are centered. I over adjusted the first time [emoji51]

Cheers

Last Report I Think?
Craig, Thank You For Your Kind Words
and thank you again for all your effort in making this happen for all of us. While on my second test drive headed to Hot Springs I thought I needed a way to mark where the wheels are straight ahead while driving. So while we were traveling down a very straight section of highway my wife brought me a roll of scotch tape. I let go of the steering wheel and it centered itself and traveled straight long enough for me to place the tape on the steering wheel using my top Boost center gauge as a reference. When we arrived at our campground as I was finishing parking I lined the tape up with the gauge to assume my wheels were perfectly straight.

Because of my instrument panel knotchout and overlap of my plastic covers in the center bottom of my instrument panel I had to take it off, raise it up to remove the two plastic cover halves in order to get to the UJoint splined fitting.. I tried but no way to get them out because of the wrap around behind the steering column. Once the plastic covers were removed, I looked things over wondering what I needed to unbolt besides the horizontal spline bolt. I removed the spline bolt then I lifted on the steering wheel thinking the shaft would come straight up out of the U-joint turn the wheel straight then push back into the U-joint and it didn’t move at all. None of that column moves. Then I thought maybe I needed to open the clamping groove up a little to unclamp pressure on the splined steering wheel shaft? so I used a flat screwdriver and tapped on the end to drive it into the groove to open the groove but instead the coupling went straight down slipping off the bottom of the steering wheel shaft! Oh that was easy, so for anyone who may read this just remove the horizontal bolt that clamps the splined fitting onto the steering wheel shaft and pull straight down on the U joint coupling, it sleeves up and down. Turn the steering wheel where you want it and raise the U joint coupling back up onto it aligning the splines up and re-install the horizontal bolt to hold it in place, tighten the nut back on and you should be ready to finish up. As stated by Craig and others there is a machined out groove 360 degrees around the entire steering shaft end where the horizontal bolt slides through, so the bolt will fit anywhere you align the spline shaft. That’s it, in my case it may have taken me 20 minutes because I was moving slow analyzing what to do next. I’m sure someone has already given these details but each coach may be somewhat different to a point but basically the same. The steering wheel is now straight, I hope. My third test drive back to the Dallas area will finalize this job for me!
Thank You CRAIG and all who inspired to make this happen.

[laheze]

Originally Posted by vito.a

An interesting side note. I was looking at a 2008 Monaco Signature and noticed a Sheppard steering box. Our 2004 has a TRW steering box, but somewhere around 2008 Monaco went to a Sheppard box for an increased wheel turn angle.

From the 2009 brochure:
The R.H. Sheppard power steering box allows for a
50-degree front wheel turn angle in both directions for
better maneuverability and returns the steering wheel to
its center position to eliminate driver fatigue.

ELIMINATE DRIVER FATIGUE! 😂😂😂😂😂
I eliminated driver fatigue by removing my Sheppard and installing the CRAIG inspired TRW.
Do you think that was a psychological SALES PITCH after the purchasing department had ordered a few thousand Sheppard steering gears at a reduced Hot Deal price lower than TRWs, but then maybe discovered their error??