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Old 07-09-2020, 07:39 AM   #141
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Originally Posted by YC1 View Post
Sorry, I have to ask. Did you actually use a voltmeter to test the output wires of the inverter?? I know, captain obvious. But all I have read is about checking breakers on the inverter.

It is time to buy a signal tracer to chase those darn wire paths. Not expensive at all and absolutely necessary in these beasts which often make no sense in their wire paths.

I suspect you have one of the outlets at the beginning of that chain gone bad. Those press on wire connections on some are kind of dubious to me.

With the signal tracer you just put a (hairpin), into a dead outlet in the chain and use a hand held sniffer to chase a tone. Kind of like a propane siniffer if you have ever seen one.
Irishguy: I've kind of lost track of where you are on this, other than there are now 4 separate cables going to 4 receptacles in a group, and you don't know where those 4 cables originate. It's a good bet they all branch off from a box somewhere (or just two do, and the others from an EMS or something), and you need to find that box and/or the origin of the dead ones. Which is why you need a signal tracer, or an electrician who has one and knows how to use it, as YC1 suggested long ago.
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Old 07-09-2020, 08:07 AM   #142
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Originally Posted by RamiDav View Post
Irishguy , I haven't read your whole thread so you may have read this link already
This guy has similar problems hope it helps .

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f115/hel...-370886-2.html

Thanks Rami, will give it a read.
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Old 07-09-2020, 08:18 AM   #143
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Irishguy: I've kind of lost track of where you are on this, other than there are now 4 separate cables going to 4 receptacles in a group, and you don't know where those 4 cables originate. It's a good bet they all branch off from a box somewhere (or just two do, and the others from an EMS or something), and you need to find that box and/or the origin of the dead ones. Which is why you need a signal tracer, or an electrician who has one and knows how to use it, as YC1 suggested long ago.
I actually just got a signal tracer, I'm going to give it a try today or tomorrow.

I'm somewhat suspect of the EMS. I'm just not completely sure how to troubleshoot it. TC1 has given me some pointers. I don't quite have my head wrapped around testing the circuit board to determine if it dropped my kitchen circuit. Or if the EMS itself is faulty.
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Old 07-09-2020, 08:35 AM   #144
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I hear ya...I won't be doing any splicing or running new wires. That'll be something I will leave to an electrician. So far just trouble shooting...mostly with no power on.
I've had help via phone from a poster who is a former electrician and an offer from an another.
Right now I'm needing to figure out how to fully troubleshoot the EMS as the possible culprit.
Good to know, Irishguy. I'm not very familiar with EMS since my coach doesn't have an EMS. But from what I've heard and read about EMS, they mostly protect your coach at the shore power cord, the genny, etc. Not wall outlets; your 120v breakers and GFI is supposed to do that... just sayin'
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Old 07-09-2020, 12:32 PM   #145
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Does your AC breaker panel look like this?

The control board uses 12 volts to turn on and off (load shed) several relays.

Input from the Breakers on this panel feed that board. If there is a problem with the board or the thing is doing its job of load shedding you can see it right on those terminals.

If you have this panel the schematic around page 7 shows what pins the power goes into and what pins it comes out of.

If you unplug shoreline you can tug and pull on the wires from the actual breaker and follow them to that board.

From shorline, to transfer switch, to the main breakers on this panel, then to the smaller breakers on each side. Some circuits go out directly from the panel, some feed the relay board. Once the power goes out of the relay board that feeds things like AC's and other items which may be washer/dryer for example.

From that main panel there may be one circuit that feeds your inverter/converter. The inverter/converter may have breakers on or near it.

So the path can be a bit confusing it all goes down stream.

Hopefully you are getting some confidence in the signal tracer.

Be extremely careful of course and have someone nearby if at all possible.

A heavy duty pair of gloves can help provide safety and always, always, wear some sort of eye protection.

Good luck in your hunt. I think you will know your electrical system very well after this adventure.

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Old 07-09-2020, 02:47 PM   #146
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I'm sure this has already been resolved as I did not read the 10+ pages of threads. We just had the same exact thing happen and the GFI in the bathroom was tripped and this solved the problem.
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Old 07-09-2020, 10:10 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by YC1 View Post
Does your AC breaker panel look like this?

The control board uses 12 volts to turn on and off (load shed) several relays.

Input from the Breakers on this panel feed that board. If there is a problem with the board or the thing is doing its job of load shedding you can see it right on those terminals.

If you have this panel the schematic around page 7 shows what pins the power goes into and what pins it comes out of.

If you unplug shoreline you can tug and pull on the wires from the actual breaker and follow them to that board.

From shorline, to transfer switch, to the main breakers on this panel, then to the smaller breakers on each side. Some circuits go out directly from the panel, some feed the relay board. Once the power goes out of the relay board that feeds things like AC's and other items which may be washer/dryer for example.

From that main panel there may be one circuit that feeds your inverter/converter. The inverter/converter may have breakers on or near it.

So the path can be a bit confusing it all goes down stream.

Hopefully you are getting some confidence in the signal tracer.

Be extremely careful of course and have someone nearby if at all possible.

A heavy duty pair of gloves can help provide safety and always, always, wear some sort of eye protection.

Good luck in your hunt. I think you will know your electrical system very well after this adventure.

Myron that is pretty much identical to my set-up. My EMS board only has one of those large white connectors though. Thanks for the safety advice. I've only touched live wires with my multi-meter. When doing anything else the shower power, inverter and batt cutoff switches are all off.
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Old 07-09-2020, 10:41 PM   #148
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I'm sure this has already been resolved as I did not read the 10+ pages of threads. We just had the same exact thing happen and the GFI in the bathroom was tripped and this solved the problem.
I've been able to rule that out as I only have GFI at the breakers.
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Old 07-10-2020, 06:48 AM   #149
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[QUOTE=irishguy;5339313]
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Originally Posted by Solo_RV_Guy View Post

That is quite possible...nothing on the EMS display states it sheds that circuit though. Anyone know how to bypass the EMS?
Unless the previous owner re-wired something (highly unlikely), I doubt the EMS sheds that circuit. The intent of the EMS is to shed 'HIGH DEMAND" items such as Air Conditioners, Washer/dryer, etc.

We can test the EMS at the terminals to see if it has shut anything off, but I can't see how that is effecting your problem as your inverter bi-passes the EMS function and is not designed to be "shed". You did mention that your inverter "IS" getting power.
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Old 07-10-2020, 07:52 AM   #150
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[QUOTE=windsorbill;5341402]
Quote:
Originally Posted by irishguy View Post

Unless the previous owner re-wired something (highly unlikely), I doubt the EMS sheds that circuit. The intent of the EMS is to shed 'HIGH DEMAND" items such as Air Conditioners, Washer/dryer, etc.

We can test the EMS at the terminals to see if it has shut anything off, but I can't see how that is effecting your problem as your inverter bi-passes the EMS function and is not designed to be "shed". You did mention that your inverter "IS" getting power.
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Quickest way to check to see if EMS has shed anything, (or isn't allowing power to go through a circuit) is to put one end of your multi meter on terminal circled above(wire should be going to the neutral bus). With the other end of meter, touch each terminal. You should have 120 volts at each terminal.
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Old 07-11-2020, 06:45 PM   #151
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Final Conclusion

Hello all,

Thank you for all your input. Much appreciated.

I'm not going to go into a whole lot of detail but between utilizing a volt meter and a wire tracer on both the power and neutral circuit of the problematic "front/kitchen" feed, I have been able to come up with a conclusion:

The problem is on the black wire feed that leaves the breaker in the 120v sub panel and feeds the 5 dead kitchen outlets, the two dead front TV area outlets and the two live TV area outlets.

Most likely conclusion: There is a j-box somewhere in the upper wall or ceiling of the shower room or bedroom. At this j-box the black wire feed from the 120v breaker panel will split out to feed the two plumbing chase j-boxes to my kitchen outlets. It will also split out to feed the two dead and two live front TV area outlets.

I think the circuit opened in that hidden j-box which killed the feed to my 5 kitchen slide outlets and a separate feed that goes to the 2 dead front TV area outlets. Luckily I still have the two live outlets in the TV area that did not open up in that hidden j-box circuit feed.

Anyone out there have a 2003 Windsor PST that knows the location of all the j-boxes that run off the "front/kitchen" breaker in the 120v sub panel?
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Old 07-11-2020, 08:40 PM   #152
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If you have cabinets above your bed .....check up there.
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Old 07-12-2020, 07:11 AM   #153
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The schematic I have is for a slightly newer Windsor, it doesn't use the term j box but the wire run goes from front kitchen gfi breaker. The line runs from breaker to under dinette cabinet, dinette rear o/h dinette table o/h, plumbing chaseway to 6x6 slideout to junction under stove, branches out to stove, 2nd line to coach flip up table, 3rd line to ice maker, third recept, galley o/h, bar o/h, wall lamp o/h
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Old 07-12-2020, 08:51 AM   #154
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The schematic I have is for a slightly newer Windsor, it doesn't use the term j box but the wire run goes from front kitchen gfi breaker. The line runs from breaker to under dinette cabinet, dinette rear o/h dinette table o/h, plumbing chaseway to 6x6 slideout to junction under stove, branches out to stove, 2nd line to coach flip up table, 3rd line to ice maker, third recept, galley o/h, bar o/h, wall lamp o/h
Thanks Gramps,

Mine is probably similar but with our PST floor plan the kitchen is on the passenger side (fridge on driver side) which is the same side as the breaker panel. The dinette is on driver side. The chaseway is between the kitchen slide and the shower surround.
I think there's one more j-box in the kitchen breaker path.
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