Toading with Endeavor

[Endeavoring]

Is our 2011 HR Endeavor 42 PAQ pre-wired for a particular toad pulling system?

[Robi.1014]

Not a "particular" system. There is a standard format to the 6-pins that I think you have there. Check your owner's manual for which pins offer what signal.

[ShapeShifter]

Starting in 2002, Monaco pre-wired their coaches for the US Gear Unified Tow Brake. I know my 2007 is wired that way, I'm guessing your 2011 is as well.

What you will likely find is that the electric brake signal in the 7 pin connector by the hitch is wired to a plug up front in the cockpit. That plug in the cockpit will also have power, ground, and the brake switch signal, in addition to the line that runs to the trailer plug. On my rig, I found that connector under the side console behind the panel next to the driver's seat, although some people have found it up under the dash.

While they say it's pre-wired for the US Gear system, the connector does not match the connector on the cockpit control module. You either have to track down and buy an adapter cable, or splice into the wires (like I did.) In reality, it's a generic wiring system, much like the trailer brake control pre-wire in many trucks. I'm sure it could be used with other braking systems as well, although I don't know if the power coming into the connector, or the wire leading back to the trailer plug are heavy enough to use with a standard trailer brake controller that actually supplies power to the trailer plug. (The US Gear system only sends control signals down that wire -- the actual power for the braking system comes from the toad's battery and a charging line from the coach.)

If you look at the standard installation instructions for the US Gear brake system, they use a second umbilical cord for the brake control signal and the toad battery charging line. I didn't use that umbilical and instead combined everything into one cable -- it has the standard 7 pin trailer plug on one end that connects to the back of the motorhome, and a 6 pin round plug on the toad end. I used the standard wiring scheme with ground, running lights, left turn/brake and right turn/brakes hooked up as usual. The braking control signal goes through the electric brakes pin (even though it's not the standard braking system) and the toad charge line goes through the 12V battery charge power pins. The "aux" circuit on the 7 pin plug (often used for reverse lights) is not connected.

That's a rather rambling description... if it doesn't make sense, let me know and I'll draw a picture that explains it better.

[Endeavoring]

That's some good information! Thank you guys for helping me out. As soon as we get the Zoomobile back, gonna start wiring for the toad. (99 F350 7.3 Crew Cab Dually 4x4).

[Dupdyke]

Originally Posted by Endeavoring

That's some good information! Thank you guys for helping me out. As soon as we get the Zoomobile back, gonna start wiring for the toad. (99 F350 7.3 Crew Cab Dually 4x4).

What does that weigh and what supplemental brake system are you using?

[ShapeShifter]

Good luck! That's one heavy toad there! I thought my F-150 was heavy at 5980 pounds (as per recent scale slip.) That F-350 dually is going to be a beast! Don't skimp on the tow bar, safety cables, braking system, or any other equipment. Finding a 10,000 pound rated tow bar was pretty easy, but the heaviest safety cables I could find were 8,000 pound. Is that going to be enough for your truck?

[Endeavoring]

The truck with 2 sport bikes loaded will be about 9500 lbs.:-) I am just now working on getting it ready to flat tow. Looking at Air Force One and the RVi brake 2 for braking. Definitively 10000# Tow Bar. Also a Remco Drive shaft coupler. Haven't got far enough to research the safety cables. Feedback please!

[YC1]

The wires inside the dash as suggested my even have writing along their edges if you look close. The wires should be plenty heavy to handle any brake controller.

[Dutch Star Don]

I bought the Roadmaster towbar and ordered it with the 10K cables.

[ShapeShifter]

Hmmm... I wrote a long reply to this thread the other day, and I don't see it. Maybe I hit preview instead of post...

Let me try again...

Originally Posted by Endeavoring

Looking at Air Force One and the RVi brake 2 for braking. Definitively 10000# Tow Bar. Also a Remco Drive shaft coupler. Haven't got far enough to research the safety cables. Feedback please!

The Air Force One is a nice system, I was seriously considering that one. But I was a little leery about tapping into the coach air brakes, and in the end the US Gear system won out for me. (I like the ability to adjust the braking gain in the cockpit to get the right balance of braking effort, and I like the manual application lever which lets me test that the toad brakes are working before I set out for the day.) With the air application, you won't need the pre-wired brake trigger line that runs from the cockpit back to the trailer plug, but maybe you can use that wire in reverse to run the brakes activated signal from the toad to the dashboard light? It would save you the effort of running a new wire.

The RVi Brake 2 wasn't around at the time I did my conversion. It looks like one of the better brake-in-a-box systems, but I'm not a fan of something that needs to be installed and removed EVERY TIME I go to tow. I can see that getting old real fast. While the install of my braking system was quite a bit of work, I only had to do that once and now I don't have to do anything special when I hook up to tow (other than clip on the breakaway cable.) I'll put up with a one time installation hassle to make things easy in the future.

Sorry, I don't have any experience with driveshaft disconnects. Both my old truck and current truck are 4x4 with electronic transfer cases that can be put in neutral. No disconnect needed.

For the safety cables, I should've been more clear: I could find 10,000 pound cables, but only ones that were coiled and had hooks on both ends. I wanted straight cables so I could put them in the cable guides of my Roadmaster tow bar, and at least one end had to have just a loop with no hook to be able to thread through the guides. Here's what my towbar looks like with the electrical and safety cables running through the guides on the arms:

I just think it makes for a neater installation, and makes it easier to deal with the cables. At the time, Roadmaster did list a 10,000 pound straight cable, but when I went to order them they said they weren't available due to production or design issues (I don't recall the details.) I ended up going with 8,000 pound cables which were good enough for my needs, but wouldn't work for you. Both Roadmaster and BlueOx list coiled 10,000 pound cables with hooks, hopefully you won't have an issue actually getting them.

While your truck and mine are totally different beasts, I wrote up my experiences converting over my truck to tow. Maybe something in there will help you? http://www.irv2.com/forums/f85/setti...-a-175092.html

Originally Posted by YC1

The wires inside the dash as suggested my even have writing along their edges if you look close. The wires should be plenty heavy to handle any brake controller.

Plenty heavy to handle any toad braking system, yes, but my concern was with driving full braking power for standard trailer brakes (admittedly not what we are currently discussing.) Both my old and current trucks use 12 gauge wire for the trailer brakes. My recollection was that the brake pre-wire had smaller wires, which given double the distance that they have to travel in the coach would probably not be a good thing.

Looking at the coach wiring diagram (attached) I see that it is a 18 gauge wire at the connector, but then it splices to a 12 gauge wire before it runs to the back of the coach. If the 18 gauge run is short enough, that shouldn't be an issue. More of a concern is that the ignition power wire is only 14 gauge, which splices down to 18 gauge when going to the connector. That seems a little light, but at least it's a short run. The final concern is that it's only a 20 Amp fuse powering the trailer brake circuit (as well as a few ancillary relays and brake signal circuits.) The current and previous trucks both power the brakes with a 30 amp fuse.

Again, none of this is an issue with the amount of power needed by any toad brake, but should probably be taken into consideration by someone towing a trailer who wants to actually power the trailer brakes through these circuits.

Originally Posted by Dutch Star Don

I bought the Roadmaster towbar and ordered it with the 10K cables.

Straight cables or coiled? Are you running them through the cable guide tunnels? When was this?