Community Forums

falconman · 03-15-2015, 09:05 AM

It's now quiet again since I finally got around in replacing the old ATS with its irritating constant hum. I had posted about this issue some months ago but it seems it's a bit too old to add to it. The old ATS was the ESCO 50 amp with surge protection. The humming started shortly after we got the unit and all my attempts to reduce it by cleaning, insulating, etc, were not successful. Thanks to helpful suggestions on this forum and after talking with the ESCO rep I just deceided to replace the unit with a different type, one with DC relays and shore power priority. The representative at ESCO made me a great deal on the new unit and it arrived rather quickly. Now this is where the fun begins.
The two units looked very similiar in size but had different wiring configurations. Nothing complicated but I wasn't sure if the wires would be long enough for the new connections. I also had concerns from the beginning planning stages of how to keep and integrate the Aladdin system with the new ATS. That turned out to be not much of an issue. After studying the wiring diagrams I was able to figure that one out. It was actually a pretty easy interface.
Removing the old ATS was pretty straight forward and I made sure to mark all the wires. What I discovered during the install was that the holes for the large diameter rigid conduit fittings were not in the same locations on the two boxes. The bay location where all this is located is not large and the ATS had to go back exactly where it came from. I was finally able to connect the two boxes together (ATS and the Aladdin) by flipping each box over and then reversing there location in the bay. This required relocating the wires in the Aladdin box. With the boxes mounted I began the wrestling match with the 6 ga wires! I also took this opportunity to wire in my Progressive EMS that I had in my previous TT in the adjacent bay. This I installed with plugs so as to allow easy removal for service if necessary, something I learned when I had problems with it earlier on the TT, it had also began hummimg. So after three days of work it all is running well, and quietly, but realized I am getting too old for this. Squeezing into small openings is getting too difficult these days. Thanks to all for the great info.

wa8yxm · 03-15-2015, 12:31 PM

Very few (If any) Transfer switches have what I call surge protection.

Generally devices that claim "Surge Protection" have MOV's (Metal Oxcide Varisistors) in them,,Great at clipping spikes, No good at all in a sustained high voltage surge or brownout.

A Progressive Industries HW-##c (where ## is either 50 or 30 depending on your rig) Protects in all of those condition...And more.

NVMike · 03-16-2015, 08:06 PM

Know why it was humming? It didn't know the words...��

flaggship1 · 03-16-2015, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wa8yxm

Very few (If any) Transfer switches have what I call surge protection.

Generally devices that claim "Surge Protection" have MOV's (Metal Oxcide Varisistors) in them,,Great at clipping spikes, No good at all in a sustained high voltage surge or brownout.

A Progressive Industries HW-##c (where ## is either 50 or 30 depending on your rig) Protects in all of those condition...And more.

When a park transformer blew - my Power Master VC50 Voltage Controller was unharmed. The PI PT 50C was plugged into the PM VC50 and it was unharmed. My factory installed Transfer Switch was fried on the 110 side. The original unit was obsolete and the replacement was the TRC Model 40250. It reportedly has all the features of the PI PT50C.

Are you saying the 40250 isn't as effective or doesn't do as advertised?

I still have the PM VC and PI PT50C in line but not sure the SP is needed at this point. I keep it there as sacraficial since it's cheaper than the new 40250 Transfer Switch.

http://trci.net/products/surge-guard...s-hardwire-rvc

Dr4Film · 03-16-2015, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by falconman

It's now quiet again since I finally got around in replacing the old ATS with its irritating constant hum. I had posted about this issue some months ago but it seems it's a bit too old to add to it. The old ATS was the ESCO 50 amp with surge protection. The humming started shortly after we got the unit and all my attempts to reduce it by cleaning, insulating, etc, were not successful. Thanks to helpful suggestions on this forum and after talking with the ESCO rep I just deceided to replace the unit with a different type, one with DC relays and shore power priority. The representative at ESCO made me a great deal on the new unit and it arrived rather quickly. Now this is where the fun begins.
The two units looked very similiar in size but had different wiring configurations. Nothing complicated but I wasn't sure if the wires would be long enough for the new connections. I also had concerns from the beginning planning stages of how to keep and integrate the Aladdin system with the new ATS. That turned out to be not much of an issue. After studying the wiring diagrams I was able to figure that one out. It was actually a pretty easy interface.
Removing the old ATS was pretty straight forward and I made sure to mark all the wires. What I discovered during the install was that the holes for the large diameter rigid conduit fittings were not in the same locations on the two boxes. The bay location where all this is located is not large and the ATS had to go back exactly where it came from. I was finally able to connect the two boxes together (ATS and the Aladdin) by flipping each box over and then reversing there location in the bay. This required relocating the wires in the Aladdin box. With the boxes mounted I began the wrestling match with the 6 ga wires! I also took this opportunity to wire in my Progressive EMS that I had in my previous TT in the adjacent bay. This I installed with plugs so as to allow easy removal for service if necessary, something I learned when I had problems with it earlier on the TT, it had also began hummimg. So after three days of work it all is running well, and quietly, but realized I am getting too old for this. Squeezing into small openings is getting too difficult these days. Thanks to all for the great info.

Your first ESCO 50 amp Transfer Switch was the ES50M-65N model. It uses 110 VAC Coils.

The second ESCO 50 amp Transfer Switch was the LPT50BRD model. It uses 12 VDC coils.

I prefer the LPT50BRD model and mine has been working full-time since 2001.

Quote:

Originally Posted by NVMike

Know why it was humming? It didn't know the words...��

I love it!

Quote:

Originally Posted by flaggship1

Are you saying the 40250 isn't as effective or doesn't do as advertised?

Surge Guard RVC Compatible ATS with Full RV Power Protection | Technology Research, LLC

Steve,

The only brand of RV transfer switch that also has surge protection and EMS control is made and distributed by TRC. I wouldn't say that it doesn't do what it supposed to or advertised to do otherwise they would not be selling them.

My personal opinion of the TRC products is that they are not as good compared to the Progressive Industries EMS products. If something happens to the TRC transfer switch section or the surge section or the EMS section you are basically $hit out of luck and most likely will have to either send the entire unit in for possible repair or purchase another unit.

With separate transfer switch and EMS units, if the transfer switch goes that's all you have to replace. If the surge part of the EMS unit has a problem then the surge board would be replaced or if the EMS control board needed repair then that is another board. The customer service department of Progressive Industries is one of the best and their products are all guaranteed for their lifetime NOT ownership time.

Since you have double coverage for now I would not be concerned until which time you have a problem with the TRC unit. That's when I would junk it. The replace it with an ESCO LPT50BRD Transfer switch and be done with the TRC products.

JMHO.

Safe travels.

Dr4Film ----- Richard

flaggship1 · 03-17-2015, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr4Film

Your first ESCO 50 amp Transfer Switch was the ES50M-65N model. It uses 110 VAC Coils.

The second ESCO 50 amp Transfer Switch was the LPT50BRD model. It uses 12 VDC coils.

I prefer the LPT50BRD model and mine has been working full-time since 2001.

I love it!

Steve,

The only brand of RV transfer switch that also has surge protection and EMS control is made and distributed by TRC. I wouldn't say that it doesn't do what it supposed to or advertised to do otherwise they would not be selling them.

My personal opinion of the TRC products is that they are not as good compared to the Progressive Industries EMS products. If something happens to the TRC transfer switch section or the surge section or the EMS section you are basically $hit out of luck and most likely will have to either send the entire unit in for possible repair or purchase another unit.

With separate transfer switch and EMS units, if the transfer switch goes that's all you have to replace. If the surge part of the EMS unit has a problem then the surge board would be replaced or if the EMS control board needed repair then that is another board. The customer service department of Progressive Industries is one of the best and their products are all guaranteed for their lifetime NOT ownership time.

Since you have double coverage for now I would not be concerned until which time you have a problem with the TRC unit. That's when I would junk it. The replace it with an ESCO LPT50BRD Transfer switch and be done with the TRC products.

JMHO.

Safe travels.

Dr4Film ----- Richard

Thanks Richard. I knew I should have asked you instead of calling Fleetwood. The TRC is the recommended replacement for the obsolete switch. And it wasn't cheap.

So far, so good. And I will keep belt and suspenders in place.

falconman · 03-18-2015, 09:39 AM

The original unit was in fact the ESCO ES50M-65N with the surge protection. The surge protector consisted of a small box located on the main ATS that was not visible from the bay door. Monaco had installed the ATS on the side wall with the Surge Protector wedged between the wall and the power cord reel. I didn't even know it was there until I saw the lights on the unit when I had the access doors open for the AH. I know nothing about surge protectors or how good this unit is. It seems it's still available from ESCO. I did replace it with the LPT50BRD thanks to info from this forum and ESCO.
The main reason for the post was to followup to my original one, I hate it when I never find out what happened to someone's issue, and to pass on something I learned during the process that may be of help to others. I'm no electrician but have done my share of wiring over the years. The time and effort it took me may not be a true representation for someone who is more familiar with the process but it does show some of the problems I encountered. In a nutshell, it was not a simple R and R job, conduit not lining up, wires too short, etc. if your going to do this yourself or hire it out, just be prepared. One last thing I learned is about connecting the large wires together. I don't like twist connectors and have always used split bolts in the past. They do require taping and in the postion they were in it would have been difficult. I did a little research and found "insulated mechanical connectors". Known in the trade as "monkey butts", they allow for connection by inserting wires and tightening via a set screw. They come in different configurations and are fully insulated. What a time saver!

Dr4Film · 03-18-2015, 02:49 PM

The ESCO 50 amp transfer switch ES50M-65N does not come with surge protection. It is simply a transfer switch.

It appears that Monaco had added an additional device adjacent to the transfer switch that is some sort of surge protector.

Thanks for the follow-up.

Dr4Film ----- Richard

falconman · 03-18-2015, 05:42 PM

Well, ESCO does list an ATS with surge on their website under part number
ES50-WITH SURGE so I may have been mistaken about the model I removed. I can't tell now since its been discarded. Mine did look like the one depicted on their site and its wiring was included in the factory wiring diagram. They must think pretty highly of it with a list price of over $1800!

Dr4Film · 03-18-2015, 06:48 PM

Dan,

Anything is possible but I will guarantee you that Monaco would not spend over $1800 for the ESCO Transfer Switch with the Surge Protection. Possibly a previous owner may have BUT if that was the case I will go so far as to say that they had no clue to spend that much money for a transfer switch with surge protection.

One could spend $140 for an excellent 50 amp Transfer Switch and about $315 for an EMS device that would not only have surge protection but also pedestal power protection from really BAD power supplies.

So $450 versus $1800+, I don't think so.

JMHO.

Dr4Film ----- Richard