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06-05-2021, 04:21 PM
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#99
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: FL
Posts: 11,403
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Now do it with the engine running. No shoreline or generator.
Those readings all say dead batteries of course. Both banks are low. 12.36 and 12.18 are very very low.
When done with the engine running. Turn it off and do it with just shoreline.
__________________
Certified Senior Electronic Technician, Telecommunications Engineer, Telecommunications repair Service Center Owner, Original owner HR 2008
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06-05-2021, 04:25 PM
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#100
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2014
Posts: 7,870
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Yup, same readings with:
Engine running at 1,200+ RPM.
Then with engine off, shore power on.
THEN we can help!
Small "windows" into what is going on is extremely hard to evaluate.
__________________
Brett Wolfe
Ex: 2003 Alpine 38FDDS. Ex: 1997 Safari Sahara. Ex: 1993 Foretravel U240
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06-05-2021, 05:21 PM
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#101
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YC1
Now do it with the engine running. No shoreline or generator.
Those readings all say dead batteries of course. Both banks are low. 12.36 and 12.18 are very very low.
When done with the engine running. Turn it off and do it with just shoreline.
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All those readings are with the engine running. So kind of confused here. So run the engine again at 1200 rpm and take readings? And then take readings with shore power?
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06-05-2021, 05:47 PM
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#102
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: FL
Posts: 11,403
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OOpps. So sorry. Missed the engine running somehow.
Alternator is NOT putting out.
Connect shoreline and get readings then.
As for the alternator, it could be something easer than the alternator itself. It could be a regulator or fuse etc.
Getting readings with shoreline will be helpful for future reference of course.
I would NOT toss an alternator at it unless you had one in hand but with all the safety precautions. Pictures, batteries disconnected etc.
I would definitely not change that solenoid until the voltage readings are taken while connected to shoreline.
__________________
Certified Senior Electronic Technician, Telecommunications Engineer, Telecommunications repair Service Center Owner, Original owner HR 2008
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06-05-2021, 08:17 PM
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#103
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YC1
OOpps. So sorry. Missed the engine running somehow.
Alternator is NOT putting out.
Connect shoreline and get readings then.
As for the alternator, it could be something easer than the alternator itself. It could be a regulator or fuse etc.
Getting readings with shoreline will be helpful for future reference of course.
I would NOT toss an alternator at it unless you had one in hand but with all the safety precautions. Pictures, batteries disconnected etc.
I would definitely not change that solenoid until the voltage readings are taken while connected to shoreline.
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YC1 thanks. I do have a spare alternator on hand just in case i needed it. Now I will have to take readings in the morning and will not change the isolator yet. BTW, the isolator i changed before my trip was the battery disconnect not the big round one.
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06-06-2021, 06:44 AM
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#104
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YC1
OOpps. So sorry. Missed the engine running somehow.
Alternator is NOT putting out.
Connect shoreline and get readings then.
As for the alternator, it could be something easer than the alternator itself. It could be a regulator or fuse etc.
Getting readings with shoreline will be helpful for future reference of course.
I would NOT toss an alternator at it unless you had one in hand but with all the safety precautions. Pictures, batteries disconnected etc.
I would definitely not change that solenoid until the voltage readings are taken while connected to shoreline.
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Ok took readings with shore power on ONLY....
No.1 = N/A Ground
No.2 = 12.89 volts (Battery Maintainer relay)
N0.3 = 12.89 volts (chassis)
13.17 volts (House)
No.4 = 12.87 volts (Top Lug connector) Bottom is ground
No.5 = Unable to get reading
No.6 = 13.17 volts
No.7 = 0 volts (Ignition connector only)
Battery Isolator in next compartment
12.89 volts (Chassis)
13.17 volts (house)
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06-06-2021, 07:49 AM
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#105
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: FL
Posts: 11,403
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I don't see a reading for the small lugs on the solenoid in the second compartment. That is a mute point for now.
It is obvious your alternator is not working or some associated component. If you have a built in regulator, changing it should do the trick.
If not, then a few more measurements are in order but based on history and previous threads then changing it it not a bad idea at this point if you are extremely careful in documentation. That is, pictures of every wire. Take voltage measurements on every wire before beginning the process of changing it out. Not with the engine running for safety of course.
Then with shoreline off and battery negative posts disconnected move on to changing it.
If it is the earlier model of alternator, which is likely there could be other steps needed to completely resolve things if the swap does not immediately cure it.
__________________
Certified Senior Electronic Technician, Telecommunications Engineer, Telecommunications repair Service Center Owner, Original owner HR 2008
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06-06-2021, 02:33 PM
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#106
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YC1
I don't see a reading for the small lugs on the solenoid in the second compartment. That is a mute point for now.
It is obvious your alternator is not working or some associated component. If you have a built in regulator, changing it should do the trick.
If not, then a few more measurements are in order but based on history and previous threads then changing it it not a bad idea at this point if you are extremely careful in documentation. That is, pictures of every wire. Take voltage measurements on every wire before beginning the process of changing it out. Not with the engine running for safety of course.
Then with shoreline off and battery negative posts disconnected move on to changing it.
If it is the earlier model of alternator, which is likely there could be other steps needed to completely resolve things if the swap does not immediately cure it.
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So changing the alternator. Would that require replacing the belt tensioner or can i re-use the same one? Additionally, any tips on removing the serpentine belt and how much to tighten back up?
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06-06-2021, 03:05 PM
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#107
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 14,498
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You should not have to replace tensioner. There should be a square hole in the tensioner, I believe it is 1/2". Use a long ratchet or breaker bar and you can move the tensioner enough to take the serpentine belt off. Take a picture of routing before you take it off.
Make sure the + battery cable is off the battery.
Pull the fuses on solar charger if you have solar, there are 2 fuses in the rear drivers side compartment, one near the chassis battery disconnect, the other on the other side of that bay.
Label all the wires, take pictures and draw a diagram as to how they attach.
Remove wires, it may be easier to crawl underneath and access from behind.
Loosen and remove the mounting bolts for the alternator.
If the new alternator does not have a pulley you will have to remove the old on and transfer to new, this can be a pain in the butt, need a puller most likely. May have to take it to a shop of bum some tools.
Reverse the above to install. The most important thing is the wiring, make sure you get it labeled right and then reinstalled right. To put the belt back on pull the tension with the breaker bar and position the belt onto the pulley. No adjustment required, the tensioner does all the work.
Should be a ~45-60 minute job if you have the tools.
Save your old alternator and get it rebuilt, I had mine rebuilt ~7 years ago for $185.
__________________
Jim J
2002 Monaco Windsor 38 PKD Cummins ISC 350 8.3L
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee w/5.7 Hemi
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06-06-2021, 03:18 PM
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#108
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 14,498
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Also, on my Windsor I have a rear start switch that is mounted to the left of the alternator. There are 2 switches, one that is labeled Front/Back, and the other start.
If you have the rear start capability DO NOT hit the Front Back Switch accidently. When you go to start the coach from the cab you will not have any power to the dash and nothing happens when you turn the key.
Ask me how I know, I've hit it twice and both times I was in panic mode until I figured out what I did wrong.
__________________
Jim J
2002 Monaco Windsor 38 PKD Cummins ISC 350 8.3L
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee w/5.7 Hemi
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06-06-2021, 05:33 PM
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#109
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 1,460
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well, forgive me if this is repetitive, but after about 25 posts I lost the bubble on where you were so I'll relate a couple of charging problems with my coach that I had to solve, and I don't recall seeing this posted anywhere before in this thread.
If you have a diode isolator (versus a relay isolator) you will drop .7V across the isolator. So not only does it matter where you are measuring the voltage, but alternators meant to be used with a diode isolator usually have a jumper that must be connected/disconnected or a sense line that tells the alternator when the battery is too low and then it boosts the voltage another .75V.
If you do not have this feature the batteries never reach full charge. To compound the problem, if you have a follower charger between the battery charger and your chassis batteries (house priority), the house batteries will probably never reach full charge, which means the follower charger never switches to the chassis batteries and things just get worse from there, especially if the generator starts off the chassis batteries....
After having an alternator failure (I'd bet because the thing was always working overtime to keep things charged) I saw that the alternator had been replaced once before, was not set up properly for diodes, and I'd bet dollars to donuts that it wasn't set up right to start with.
I replaced the Leese-neville with a bigger Delco that had the sense wire and required a separate field. Then I set the coach up for chassis priority - because it's not a real disaster if the house starts to go, but it's a serious one if the coach won't start.
Now, the chassis batteries are always charged, so the follower charger does it's job and keeps the house batteries up.
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06-06-2021, 06:57 PM
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#110
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VanDiemen23
well, forgive me if this is repetitive, but after about 25 posts I lost the bubble on where you were so I'll relate a couple of charging problems with my coach that I had to solve, and I don't recall seeing this posted anywhere before in this thread.
If you have a diode isolator (versus a relay isolator) you will drop .7V across the isolator. So not only does it matter where you are measuring the voltage, but alternators meant to be used with a diode isolator usually have a jumper that must be connected/disconnected or a sense line that tells the alternator when the battery is too low and then it boosts the voltage another .75V.
If you do not have this feature the batteries never reach full charge. To compound the problem, if you have a follower charger between the battery charger and your chassis batteries (house priority), the house batteries will probably never reach full charge, which means the follower charger never switches to the chassis batteries and things just get worse from there, especially if the generator starts off the chassis batteries....
After having an alternator failure (I'd bet because the thing was always working overtime to keep things charged) I saw that the alternator had been replaced once before, was not set up properly for diodes, and I'd bet dollars to donuts that it wasn't set up right to start with.
I replaced the Leese-neville with a bigger Delco that had the sense wire and required a separate field. Then I set the coach up for chassis priority - because it's not a real disaster if the house starts to go, but it's a serious one if the coach won't start.
Now, the chassis batteries are always charged, so the follower charger does it's job and keeps the house batteries up.
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Well I will be honest to everyone. I am not comfortable to do major work on this RV until I get home. I am in key west now and if anything goes wrong I am screwed. Only one mobile rv mechanic in area and I am sure they be fishing. I just want an temporary fix right now to get me back home.
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06-07-2021, 05:17 AM
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#111
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jun 2011
Location: FL
Posts: 11,403
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Simple temporary work around. You had a charging voltage on one large post of the solenoid.13.17 volts, house batteries. The other post had a much lower voltage.
Turn shore power off. Disconnect batteries with the large switches and measure the two posts on the large solenoid. If both are 0 (for safety), then just take the nuts off both sides and pile all the wires on one large post. IF the post is not long enough, then use a nut and bolt and some electrical tape for insulation. Tie the wires back so they cannot rub that connections.
Now turn everything on and your shoreline will be charging both banks.
To hit the road, just turn the generator on so it runs the inverter. Do double check the voltage with the generator running once more before departing.
This should carry you thousands of miles safely, albeit without any backup short of solar.
When you stop in an rv park the shoreline will keep both banks up just fine.
If you can find a shop you have confidence in when home have them change the alternator. They will know what to look for and how to 100% diagnose the alternator and regulator system.
You have posted plenty of great data so don't get confused with diode isolators and the like. You do not need that indepth knowledge.
Some isolators have a .25 volt drop if built with certain diodes so the normal .7 volt drop may not apply but I did the math when you posted the numbers and it looks like you have an isolator in the mix.
__________________
Certified Senior Electronic Technician, Telecommunications Engineer, Telecommunications repair Service Center Owner, Original owner HR 2008
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06-07-2021, 05:53 AM
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#112
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Nov 2019
Posts: 169
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YC1
Simple temporary work around. You had a charging voltage on one large post of the solenoid.13.17 volts, house batteries. The other post had a much lower voltage.
Turn shore power off. Disconnect batteries with the large switches and measure the two posts on the large solenoid. If both are 0 (for safety), then just take the nuts off both sides and pile all the wires on one large post. IF the post is not long enough, then use a nut and bolt and some electrical tape for insulation. Tie the wires back so they cannot rub that connections.
Now turn everything on and your shoreline will be charging both banks.
To hit the road, just turn the generator on so it runs the inverter. Do double check the voltage with the generator running once more before departing.
This should carry you thousands of miles safely, albeit without any backup short of solar.
When you stop in an rv park the shoreline will keep both banks up just fine.
If you can find a shop you have confidence in when home have them change the alternator. They will know what to look for and how to 100% diagnose the alternator and regulator system.
You have posted plenty of great data so don't get confused with diode isolators and the like. You do not need that indepth knowledge.
Some isolators have a .25 volt drop if built with certain diodes so the normal .7 volt drop may not apply but I did the math when you posted the numbers and it looks like you have an isolator in the mix.
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Myron just sent you a PM
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