Wandering, sway bars, alignment, ride height, oh my!!

[Vanwill]

Adjustable Trailing Arm Details.pdf
Attached is a NTS (Not To Scale) sketch of what I'm presently machining. I've decided to adapt this to two of the existing trailing arms, rather than fabricate new ones--just a matter of convenience.

Z-Mike had a sophisticated method of measuring his required trailing arm length modification to correct the thrust angle. Although several of you have suggested great ways to measure the amount it might be out, I'm just not confident enough of my result to go to all the trouble of shortening/lengthening the trailing arms and end up being wrong. If I make them adjustable, like on OTR tractors, the alignment shop can get whatever dimension they need. Z-Mike's method of correction is much simpler, and even stronger than what I'm machining now. But the strength of the components far exceeds the strength of the 2" x 1/4" square tubing, and I'm expecting that the total amount of threaded length will be barely longer than that required for the two nuts and the square section in the middle to adjust them.

Although I've already begun machining, many of you guys have had some great ideas about a number of difficult projects, so don't hesitate to "second-guess" me about the method of making these adjustable trailing arms. I've got a thick skin, and if someone comes up with a killer idea, I won't hesitate to go "back to the drawing board" and start over.

Once again, I thank all of you for your efforts at "thinking outside the box" and helping solve the single most long-standing issue with the handling of Monaco Roadmaster chassis. After hundreds of Watts link, X-brace and TRW steering box installations, Craig and I now are confident to boast, "Bring us your worst-handling, road-wild beast, and we will tame it...without replacing shocks or using "add-on" products. You guys have been a great help. And again special thanks to Bob Nodine for being the first Watts link "Guinea Pig". You started it all, Bob!!

[10Boomer]

Originally Posted by Vanwill

Attachment 174584

Attached is a NTS (Not To Scale) sketch of what I'm presently machining. I've decided to adapt this to two of the existing trailing arms, rather than fabricate new ones--just a matter of convenience.



Z-Mike had a sophisticated method of measuring his required trailing arm length modification to correct the thrust angle. Although several of you have suggested great ways to measure the amount it might be out, I'm just not confident enough of my result to go to all the trouble of shortening/lengthening the trailing arms and end up being wrong. If I make them adjustable, like on OTR tractors, the alignment shop can get whatever dimension they need. Z-Mike's method of correction is much simpler, and even stronger than what I'm machining now. But the strength of the components far exceeds the strength of the 2" x 1/4" square tubing, and I'm expecting that the total amount of threaded length will be barely longer than that required for the two nuts and the square section in the middle to adjust them.



Although I've already begun machining, many of you guys have had some great ideas about a number of difficult projects, so don't hesitate to "second-guess" me about the method of making these adjustable trailing arms. I've got a thick skin, and if someone comes up with a killer idea, I won't hesitate to go "back to the drawing board" and start over.



Once again, I thank all of you for your efforts at "thinking outside the box" and helping solve the single most long-standing issue with the handling of Monaco Roadmaster chassis. After hundreds of Watts link, X-brace and TRW steering box installations, Craig and I now are confident to boast, "Bring us your worst-handling, road-wild beast, and we will tame it...without replacing shocks or using "add-on" products. You guys have been a great help. And again special thanks to Bob Nodine for being the first Watts link "Guinea Pig". You started it all, Bob!!

X2, you guys are a great asset to the Monaco community. QZ in 2018?

[Vanwill]

Originally Posted by 10boomer

x2, you guys are a great asset to the monaco community. Qz in 2018?

absolutely!!

[deSanford]

Thanks for making my life, and other Monaco owners a real pleasure on wheels. Just coming back home from a round trip from the Florida Keys. Drove through Texas on the I-10 buckets of rain and gusty winds from Harvey. The "MODIFIED" Monaco was a pleasure to drive. We are now in Desert HOT Springs with temperatures at 119 degrees with only 16 percent humidity.

[Kurt Averill]

Van, the drawing looks fine to me - you are going to do both arms on one side correct? Any thoughts as to which side - is there a visual - like the appearance of the tires in the wheelwell, or a measurement - just a simple off the nearest frame member type deal that gives you any idea if one side or the other would be the best candidate? Just wondering.

Kurt.

[zmotorsports]

That looks like it will work perfectly Van.

I'm anxious to see the finished product before (and after) you get it bolted back in place.

Mike

[Vanwill]

Originally Posted by Kurt Averill

Van, the drawing looks fine to me - you are going to do both arms on one side correct? Any thoughts as to which side - is there a visual - like the appearance of the tires in the wheelwell, or a measurement - just a simple off the nearest frame member type deal that gives you any idea if one side or the other would be the best candidate? Just wondering.

Kurt.

Kurt, I expected to find something like that, but when one is looking for a difference as small as 1/8", it is hard to tell. Nothing obvious, so I'll just choose the PS trailing arms as they are easiest to remove in my shed. I'm going to adjust the new trailing arms to the original length, and leave provision for shortening OR lengthening.

[Vanwill]

Originally Posted by zmotorsports

That looks like it will work perfectly Van.

I'm anxious to see the finished product before (and after) you get it bolted back in place.

Mike

Thanks, Mike. I guess the worst that could happen is that I go to all this trouble only to find out the thrust angle alignment is fine. Frankly, though, as differently as the two sets of rear duals have worn, it's hard to imagine something isn't wrong there. I can't conceive of a front end alignment issue causing that wear pattern.

[CrazyKnight]

I will post this in the TRW SWAP thread also.

I received this email from a HR 419 member. Van William and myself, Craig French, drove to Goshen IN in May to present two different seminars to over 100 coach owners. The 2017 HR Maintenance Session was an amazing success. A GREAT group of people and wonderful turnout. If you ever get the chance this is not your normal rally. A plethora of seminars and you actually learn a LOT about your coach. There are a few minor errors in the email but you will get the point :-)
Thank you Mike Hughes for all of your help presenting this information to coach owners !

"419 Newsletter Article 6 August 2017
Roadmaster Chassis Ride Enhancements
By Paul Miller

At the 2017 Maintenance Session I attended two sessions by Craig French and Van Williams, titled, "Roadmaster Chassis: Suspension and Handling," and "Roadmaster Chassis: Sheppard & TRW Steering Gears Characteristics and Upgrades." In the first session they described how the leaning of the coach while cornering could be reduced by installing a Watts Link in the front, or both front and rear of the coach. They also described how adding cross bracing to the rear trailing arms could reduce the sideways movement of the coach in a crosswind from the flexing of the trailing arms.

In the second session they described how Holiday Rambler and Monaco used both Sheppard and TRW steering gears and that the TRW unit was adjustable, so that excessive play in the steering wheel could be adjusted out. The Sheppard hard steering gear is not adjustable and can have 1-1/2" to 2" of play in the steering wheel and be within tolerances. In both sessions Craig talked about the significant improvement in handling he experienced with these modifications on his 2012 Monaco Knight. He also said if you are moderately handy you can install them yourself as he had done.

From the very first time I drove our new 2013 HR Ambassador I noticed excessive play in the steering wheel, but I never knew I could eliminate it until listening to Craig and Van. At the MS Craig came out to my coach and we measured 1-1/2" of play in my Sheppard steering gear. I had also experienced some sideways buffeting of the coach in a head wind or cross wind, especially driving out west. I knew then that I wanted to make these modifications to my coach.

I ordered a front Watts Link kit and a rear cross bracing kit from MonacoWatts LLC using a discount code handed out at the MS that saved 10% of the cost. The kits had to be manufactured and shipped from California and I received them in about three weeks. The installation instructions that came with the kits were clear and easy to follow and the bolt-on installation was straightforward.

Before I ordered a new TRW steering gear I reviewed the installation instructions that Craig and others had posted on the iRV2 website. I wanted to be confident I could do the whole job myself, or I would have found a shop that could do the installation. I had no trouble convincing myself that indeed I could do it. Craig had found an excellent source for rebuilt steering gears in Weller Truck Parts in Grand Rapids, MI, and the POC was listed on iRV2. Everyone at Weller was extremely helpful and professional. They helped me determine which model number Sheppard I had and found the appropriate TRW model and Pittman arm. Once I placed my order the unit arrived in three days. After installation Weller paid for shipping the old steering gear to them and I got my core deposit returned in a few days.

I followed the detailed instructions for swapping steering gears posted on iRV2 with one minor change. Their gear was bolted on with three 7/8" bolts; mine used four 5/8" bolts. The two hardest tasks were removing the Pittman arm from the drag link and drilling an access hole for the TRW adjustment screw, a 1-1/2" hole in a 1/2 steel plate in an awkward position.

Now the results. Our first long trip was from Virginia to Amana, IA, for the HRRVC EIR, and then north for a circle tour of Lake Superior, which we're still on as I write this article. The coach handles so much better now, with much fewer and smaller steering wheel movements driving down the road. The steering wheel is almost as responsive as a car, and in windy conditions I can feel wind trying to buffet the coach but it hardly moves side to side. I'm really glad for Craig and Van's presentations at the MS and all the work they have put into finding solutions to Roadmaster chassis handling issues. Total cost for the Watts Link and cross bracing was $1,190 and the total cost for the new steering gear and Pittman arm was $856. Well worth it."

Cheers,

Craig French

[Kurt Averill]

Originally Posted by zmotorsports

Nice job. I will be curious to hear of your experience after your long trip. Please give us an update afterwards.

Mike

Mike - I almost forgot about this... We got back on 8-14. The entire trip was through strong gusty winds and/or thunderstorms and rain. we made the same trip last year and averaged over 2 mpg worse this year. It sure didn't make us immune to the wind ( we had one gust on I-70 near Green River UT that tweaked the wiper arms and pushed the semi ahead of us to the edge of the pavement) but it made it much, much easier to deal with. In lower winds, including side winds it pretty much cured the wind effect, and in low / no wind it's about the same as driving my pickup. We are 73' with the trailer on so it's a lot of sail area - I am really pleased with the results. I checked everything out after we got home and it all looks good. Thanks, Kurt.

[zmotorsports]

Originally Posted by Kurt Averill

Mike - I almost forgot about this... We got back on 8-14. The entire trip was through strong gusty winds and/or thunderstorms and rain. we made the same trip last year and averaged over 2 mpg worse this year. It sure didn't make us immune to the wind ( we had one gust on I-70 near Green River UT that tweaked the wiper arms and pushed the semi ahead of us to the edge of the pavement) but it made it much, much easier to deal with. In lower winds, including side winds it pretty much cured the wind effect, and in low / no wind it's about the same as driving my pickup. We are 73' with the trailer on so it's a lot of sail area - I am really pleased with the results. I checked everything out after we got home and it all looks good. Thanks, Kurt.

Thanks for the report Kurt. Glad to hear you had positive results.

Nice job.

Mike

[Monaco Wolfy]

I have a 2004 Windor with a TRW steering boxCan someone tell me the correct procedure to adjusting a little play out of it.

[Kurt Averill]

Originally Posted by Monaco Wolfy

I have a 2004 Windor with a TRW steering boxCan someone tell me the correct procedure to adjusting a little play out of it.

Go back to post #1329 in this thread ( bottom of page 95 ) and read the next few posts.

[onechaddude]

Originally Posted by Monaco Wolfy

I have a 2004 Windor with a TRW steering boxCan someone tell me the correct procedure to adjusting a little play out of it.

Also, there's a YouTube video that shows how to do it.

Chad