Wandering, sway bars, alignment, ride height, oh my!!

[deSanford]

"small comfort" aside I would like to know what Navastar Monaco is going to do to help crah. deSanford

[moisheh]

I feel for those with handling problems but I don't think we should paint every Monaco with the same brush. Look back 5 years or more in any Monaco forum and you will see very few handling complaints. Roadmaster has always been considered one of the best chassis on the market. The 10 air bag coaches handle like a dream. The problems seem to be with short WB coaches. Any decent alignment shop should have tried swapping tires right from the get go. Maybe some of the posters should try a different brand of tire??? I havent looked back in crah's posts but what does he have for tires?? Do all owners of Crah's model have the same problem?

[greystroke]

Wow! I must be very lucky since I can drink my coffee without fear. But except for that I always use two hands. The main difference between my rig and my neighbors was weight. He was under 20,000 and I run about 22500. His XC frame was a little longer. Mine is a 34WDS and his Discovery was 37 ft.

Maybe it is a basic design problem on weight distribution. I have the 7500 Diesel generator while my neighbor had a propane unit.

I have wet hubs, not sure about my neighbors since his hub caps covered the center area. Anyway he had a hard time living with the wandering so he sold it. Guess I was just lucky.

[crah]

Originally Posted by rpasetto

crah, It appears you've had the alignment done. I see details of the front alignment records; and that the tech checked the ride height. Not sure what Monaco's specs for this coach are but, assuming that alignment is now "in spec", I can think of two things which may improve your wander situation:
1- If you have the steer tires swapped left-to-right and you notice a change in steering characteristics, e.g. a drift to the left becoming a drift to the right that may be indicative of a tire problem.
2- There's no mention about rear axle alignment; as a few others on this thread have suggested, a 4 wheel alignment is likely to help.

Good luck.

Let's see if I can answer one of these at a time. My wander is all over the place. Not a particular pull to one direction. Another poster mentioned swapping tires from left to right and for how cheap it is to do, I'll give it a shot. I have nothing to loose but time at this point. As for the 4 wheel alignment, yes the tech had the laser on the rear wheels. He did not make any adjustments in the rear. He aligned the fronts to make sure they track with the rear. I'm not really even sure they can adjust the rears without bending the axle.

[crah]

Originally Posted by rpasetto

Crah, Two suggestions: Call Monaco Tech Support and ask for ride height specs again. Give them your coach # and if they respond with specs different from the manual ask for an explanation. Do same with alignment specs. It could be the manual is in error.... could be that Monaco revised alignment specs for the RR8S chassis your coach rides on. (By the way, we also tow an Enclave).

Good luck.

Secondly, make sure you get a "complete" alignment ... steer and drive axle, to be sure.

Called for specs On the ride height from 2 different techs and got the same answer. As for the difference from the manual, there are many typos in the manual. The ride height they gave me seemed really high and showed a gigantic gap in the wheel wells. Ride or wander was the same. The alignment spec is another whole topic.

[crah]

Originally Posted by Automobilist

I know how not fun a wandering coach can be.

To tag along with the good advice "VanDieman" and others made, make sure your tire pressures are dialed in.

Don't bother with a pressure gauge. Get a laser / infrared temp gauge. $50 or so at Sears, etc. Drive enough to get the tires fully warmed. Jump out and take heat readings as quickly as you can. Take readings three places on the tread; each outer point, and the center. If the center is hotter, lower the air pressure. If the edges are warmer, increase the air pressure. You basically want even temperature across the tire tread. (NOTE: RV's only, not generally suitable for race car set up...)

This method helped immensely with mine and other coaches I've helped with.

Ed

I've tried air pressure from actual axle weight to max and everything in between. Made no difference.

[crah]

Originally Posted by ahicks

crah, those specs sound like the ones used by some shops doing the Chev P30 (Gas!) MH chassis? Did you ask where he got them?

Now that you've had a chance to try his specs, with no difference, maybe you could ask that he try more toe in just for grins?

The 0 toe in theory is used on a lot of later model cars and pick-ups - it's about minimizing drag for increased gas mileage as I understand it..... I'm REALLY struggling to believe that 0 spec isn't going to to more inclined to follow the ruts more than one with 1/8" toe in...

Ahicks I'm not sure where he got his specs from except that he stated he does motorhomes all the time. Technically the toe is 32nd in and was a little more than a 16th in from the start. That made no difference. Do you think going from a 1/16 to 1/8 would have made a huge difference. I think they would make the change for free as I mentioned the 1/8 inch toe in prior. I'd like to do it all in one shot though including caster. Will upload the printout later this evening when I get home.

[crah]

Originally Posted by Coached

somebody way, way smarter than me said something about the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result? You keep trying an alignment without knowing that it's the alignment is my point? If you swap the steer wheels like I suggested you'll know right away whether it's tires and if you let the coach "steer itself" at speed you'll know if it's the alignment? There are many moving and fixed parts that are absolutely critical to drive style and I think they should all be eliminated or at least examined before continually trying to align your way out of this? At least this latest Guy checked bushings etc. - maybe you have a bad wheel or some other component? You stated that you 'already know' that swapping the tires won't make a difference? How do you know that or do you just want this to be an alignment problem, period? I've been here and done this and my coach is going back to Indiana next Monday so that Spartan can replace the steering box - one year after I started complaining about wandering, then it will be aligned again. No offence but an open mind is often allot less costly than an open wallet?

I appreciate your input but we all have to start somewhere. As for the tires, I will try your suggestion as someone else also mentioned the same thing. I know you haven't seen my full history of what I have done. The coach had different tires about 14 months ago and I requested the dealer to change them out. They installed new Samson tires in the same size. It's been so long and I didn't document well the load rating or anything else. They handled horribly and he dealer had these Goodyear g169 installed. As for your experience with your coach I think we are talking apples to oranges. I could almost guess that you may even have a Sheppard (spelling) steering box which which was know for wandering problems. I may be way off base on that. I guess my point is that I've looked at a lot more than just the alignment. I've gone to the extent of installing the source engineering sway bars which was pretty expensive but uniquely made for this chassis. There are a very small select Monaco members that have done this mod. I believe you made a comment on the ride height valve in a previous post. There is nothing special to them and they are not made by HR. I don't even remember the brand name but can tell you they function fine and I've adjusted the ride height enough to make me sick.
Keep your comments coming and I'll open my mind more. Just know that I'm not blindly only looking at alignment. With all the alignment suggestions, I have yet to see an actual recommended spec. Except 1/8 inch toe in.

[ahicks]

Originally Posted by crah

Ahicks I'm not sure where he got his specs from except that he stated he does motorhomes all the time. Technically the toe is 32nd in and was a little more than a 16th in from the start. That made no difference. Do you think going from a 1/16 to 1/8 would have made a huge difference. I think they would make the change for free as I mentioned the 1/8 inch toe in prior. I'd like to do it all in one shot though including caster. Will upload the printout later this evening when I get home.

The toe in is a pretty simple adjustment that should only take a minute if it's been messed with recently. I think going to more toe in might be worth a try.

Then, if that makes no difference, have them try something else (caster).

I would take it one step at a time, with test drives after each step, but that's just me.

[crah]

Originally Posted by greystroke

Thanks a bunch. Saves a lot of money I was thinking about putting out.

I have a steering adjustment although I don't think anybody wants you to adjust it beacause it is not accessible without removing the generator. Friend down the street had the same chassis and he could get to his adjustment. He adjusted IAW AcccessFreightliner and it did not help his wandering.

So I can't wait for you to post your solution.

Just had a blowout on the front tires. They were steering tires. The new tires seem to handle a little better. Maybe my imagination.

Most posts I've seen have had good reviews on the safe t plus for wandering and control in the wind. I have to say that my feedback is time of the few exceptions for whatever that is worth. I left my mounting brackets on in case I ever wanted to reinstall it. It would be a piece of mind in a blow out situation. As previously mentioned my safe t plus had no impact on my wander or help control in the wind.

[crah]

Originally Posted by wetdog

I had wandering problems. Tried alignment a couple of times, they didn't do the job. It was time to have front wheel bearings packed. I decided to change over to wet hubs. First trip out I noticed a difference in handling. It sure is nice to not have to struggle driving on the highway. The tech who did the switch told me that the right wheel bearing was a little loose. Hope this helps. later wetdog

This one has me baffled. How would wet hubs help compared to the old method? I could imagine it would if the wheel bearing had play. I physically witnessed the tech checking for bearing play and there was none. I may change over to wet hubs in the future for other reason anyways.

[crah]

Originally Posted by jimkate

I am now of the firm belief that this wandering problem cannot be solved with alignments and add on steering stabilizers. I believe that some Monaco coaches are built with a structural flaw in the floating frames that causes wandering. If you have one, hang on tight, cause it's never going to get better, cause no one, including Monaco, knows exactly what the problem is, or how to fix it.

I have personally exhausted all avenues in this regard. I followed a thread called 'excessive wandering' of a disappointed soul with a brand new Monaco that is wandering and, to date, Monaco and Josams cannot solve it.

I also read that the president of Monaco RV took his family on a trip in one of his company's brand new coaches, and he was very unhappy with the handling, saying that he couldn't lift one hand off the steering wheel long enough to have a drink of water.

So, we can take small comfort in the fact that we're not alone.

Jimkate

I'm not giving up yet and truly understand your frustration.

[crah]

Originally Posted by deSanford

"small comfort" aside I would like to know what Navastar Monaco is going to do to help crah. deSanford

Desanford

I don't think Navastar has any obligation considering my coach is a 2003 model year. They do provide good tech support of other items that I need from them but have no clue on the wandering.

[crah]

Originally Posted by moisheh

I feel for those with handling problems but I don't think we should paint every Monaco with the same brush. Look back 5 years or more in any Monaco forum and you will see very few handling complaints. Roadmaster has always been considered one of the best chassis on the market. The 10 air bag coaches handle like a dream. The problems seem to be with short WB coaches. Any decent alignment shop should have tried swapping tires right from the get go. Maybe some of the posters should try a different brand of tire??? I havent looked back in crah's posts but what does he have for tires?? Do all owners of Crah's model have the same problem?

Moisheh

You have a good point on the Monaco and I did a lot of research prior to purchase. As for the short wheelbase I get passed by many short wheel base coaches and I think the problem I have is not normal. I have the Goodyear g169 rsa in 275 7022.5 load range h. I haven't seen many posts similar to mine.