Wandering, sway bars, alignment, ride height, oh my!!

[mhughes]

Successfully installed front and rear watts on Wendy and Jeannies 2008 Diplomat yesterday.

Front was a real booger. Very limited clearance between the H-Frame and the Jack. We had to shave the bolt heads down to 1/8", shave the ball in the Heim joints down from 7/8" to 3/4", and grind out a recess on the inside of the bridge to wrap around the jack to get 3/32" clearance. This was in addition to the 1/4" milled off the ends of the bell crank.

The rear was pretty straight forward. Again used 3/8" x 2" flat bar with short tubes and bungs welded to the end for the Heim joints. With an exception of the two lower clamps it is identical to the one on my Cheetah. As in Sanfords the bottom clamps are vertical mounted to the 1 1/2" x 3" tube that runs under the cargo bays (welded to the bottom of the 3" down tubes) and the top clamps are horizontal mounted to the 3" x 3" down tubes to support the cargo bays.

Test drive was great. Jeannie reported that the coach now hugs the yellow line on curves and she no longer feels a swaying/tilting motion going down the road. Much improved. She told Wendy that when he is able to drive again he will really like this.

Still need to improve a couple of things on the rear. The bars need to stay vertical so I need to come up with a polyurethane bushing around the Heim joint to replace the outer grease seal. In the long run this would be better than placing a modified washer outside the seal. I also need to find a source for u-bolts for the vertical mount. The u-bolts used on the 3" down tubes are about a 1/2" shorter than desired. If I can get these worked out the next time I meet up with Sanford and Wendy I'll swap them out.

BTW, Jeannie left me a mason jar of moonshine. Went a long way to help with the sore muscles after that 9 hour job.

[deSanford]

Mike in the meantime the "modified" washer is doing a terrific job of keeping the bars vertical and BEST of all the sides of the coach going around sharp turns. Linda also noticed the difference when we left Desert Hot Springs after Quartzsite with the wind at the side of the RV blowing around 50 MPH we hardly noticed if it wasn't for the trees and shrubs along the highway leaning over. Thank you Mike, Van, Craig, Roy and all members of this forum. Sanford

[zmotorsports]

Sorry to bring up an older thread but I have just read through the past 93 pages over the past two evenings and had to chime in and say how impressed I am with Vanwill, mhughes and many, many others who have tackled this issue with your coaches and came up with a solution.

I have an 03 Dynasty with the tag axle and don't experience any of the wandering issues per se like you guys with the RR8R chassis are but I was having a pulling issue and after a couple of alignments and cutting and modifying my trailing arms to correct a thrust angle issue I can report that after the first 500 mile trip last week it handles like a completely different coach. Granted part of that was due to installing my new Michelin tires and getting rid of those POS Goodyear G670's but correctly the thrust angle of my drive and tag axles greatly enhanced the driving aspect of our coach.

Here is a link to my new tire and thrust angle adjustment just in case anyone wants to see what is entailed in correcting this on our coaches as there are no adjustments for the drive (or tag for that matter) axle(s).
http://www.irv2.com/forums/f115/baby-gets-new-shoes-and-i-tweak-the-alignment-236035.html

Again, great job guys. Very impressive work.

Mike.

[Vanwill]

Originally Posted by zmotorsports

Sorry to bring up an older thread but I have just read through the past 93 pages over the past two evenings and had to chime in and say how impressed I am with Vanwill, mhughes and many, many others who have tackled this issue with your coaches and came up with a solution.

I have an 03 Dynasty with the tag axle and don't experience any of the wandering issues per se like you guys with the RR8R chassis are but I was having a pulling issue and after a couple of alignments and cutting and modifying my trailing arms to correct a thrust angle issue I can report that after the first 500 mile trip last week it handles like a completely different coach. Granted part of that was due to installing my new Michelin tires and getting rid of those POS Goodyear G670's but correctly the thrust angle of my drive and tag axles greatly enhanced the driving aspect of our coach.

Here is a link to my new tire and thrust angle adjustment just in case anyone wants to see what is entailed in correcting this on our coaches as there are no adjustments for the drive (or tag for that matter) axle(s).
http://www.irv2.com/forums/f115/baby-gets-new-shoes-and-i-tweak-the-alignment-236035.html

Again, great job guys. Very impressive work.

Mike.

Welcome to the thread, Mike. I have followed many of your posts. They have been technically informative, innovative, detailed and easily understood. You have done some great work.

Yes, we have many folks who have devoted a good deal of time and effort to help solve Roadmaster handling issues. I can surely say that this thread now represents some of the greatest talent and best minds ever put to work on this problem. I once felt like an "island" on this subject, and took a lot of criticism from "experts" telling me the handling problems I experienced were "all in my mind", and I just needed to "learn how to drive a motor home". We now have quite a small army of folks who have made remarkable improvements in their coach's handling. Several "crazy, radical" ideas have now become standardized improvements or cures for handling problems.

The folks on this thread are also more than willing to help others and "pay it forward". Craig and Mike Hughes are great examples. Craig, Mike Hughes and I have now passed a significant milestone--we have gotten an "unofficial" call from the "New" Monaco asking us if we could help an "old" Monaco (Roadmaster) owner with serious handling complaints. That Monaco rep and the owner were both surprised to find how willing folks were to volunteer to get under their coach and get dirty helping them out.

I agree with your sentiments about having to "drag info out of owners". But once they find they have lots of company among folks with handling complaints, they are more forthcoming.

Your thrust angle correction thread was very impressive. Again, welcome to this thread. I'm sure you will become a very valued contributor. I hope we can meet someday. Several of us are working on an Alaska trip for 2016, and I don't know how I can fit in Quartzsite, too, but I'm sure wanting to!

Van W 2000 Dynasty 36
Southeastern NC

[deSanford]

I believe the improvements to the Roadmaster 8 bag chassis brought about by Van, Craig, Mike H. and others on this thread are necessary to have a GREAT handling Monaco or Navistar Motor Home. My friend John H. @ Monaco (new) have had several conversations on how well my coach handles. When he hears from a disgruntled owner on how bad his coach handles and for what these coaches cost he is serious about making the RV owner more then satisfied with his investment. He has helped me with all my warranty work when our RV was new. During the time I have been out of warranty I have kept him informed on my ride improvements. For the last 3 years I have gone to "camp" Coburg and told Matt the service representative and John about the latest handling additions to our RV. It felt really good to be able to give back to John good information on the great minds on this thread so he is able to inform others that there is a PROVEN way to fix the issues some of the 8 bag chassis have. The four bagger units have their trailing arm issue. Looks like this blog will eventually be a must read and do for anyone wanting to have a coach go where it is pointed at all times including high wind areas. A BIG HEARTFELT THANK YOU to all the contributors and shakers to this thread. Sanford

[zmotorsports]

Originally Posted by Vanwill

Welcome to the thread, Mike. I have followed many of your posts. They have been technically informative, innovative, detailed and easily understood. You have done some great work.

Yes, we have many folks who have devoted a good deal of time and effort to help solve Roadmaster handling issues. I can surely say that this thread now represents some of the greatest talent and best minds ever put to work on this problem. I once felt like an "island" on this subject, and took a lot of criticism from "experts" telling me the handling problems I experienced were "all in my mind", and I just needed to "learn how to drive a motor home". We now have quite a small army of folks who have made remarkable improvements in their coach's handling. Several "crazy, radical" ideas have now become standardized improvements or cures for handling problems.

The folks on this thread are also more than willing to help others and "pay it forward". Craig and Mike Hughes are great examples. Craig, Mike Hughes and I have now passed a significant milestone--we have gotten an "unofficial" call from the "New" Monaco asking us if we could help an "old" Monaco (Roadmaster) owner with serious handling complaints. That Monaco rep and the owner were both surprised to find how willing folks were to volunteer to get under their coach and get dirty helping them out.

I agree with your sentiments about having to "drag info out of owners". But once they find they have lots of company among folks with handling complaints, they are more forthcoming.

Your thrust angle correction thread was very impressive. Again, welcome to this thread. I'm sure you will become a very valued contributor. I hope we can meet someday. Several of us are working on an Alaska trip for 2016, and I don't know how I can fit in Quartzsite, too, but I'm sure wanting to!

Van W 2000 Dynasty 36
Southeastern NC

Thanks Van for your compliments.

I just had to post up and say how impressed I was with the thought process that transpired here and how willing everyone was to assist others whom they had never met. That alone was impressive.

Hopefully we can meet on the road somewhere.

Mike.

[Cindycruiser]

We recently took our coach to Josam in Orlando, Fl. They did the pre and post measurements and gave us our copies. Our Caster had to be adjusted significantly even after alignment at Freightliner. We no longer have the wandering and the coach feels much more sure footed. We do still have a small amount of play in the steering wheel. It's certainly not like it was before; but, it's still got some play. Anyone have any suggestions for that?

[zmotorsports]

Originally Posted by Gayleross

We recently took our coach to Josam in Orlando, Fl. They did the pre and post measurements and gave us our copies. Our Caster had to be adjusted significantly even after alignment at Freightliner. We no longer have the wandering and the coach feels much more sure footed. We do still have a small amount of play in the steering wheel. It's certainly not like it was before; but, it's still got some play. Anyone have any suggestions for that?

About 3/4 of the way through this thread the TRW steering gear swap is covered. Appears to have helped those that had steering play issues.

Mike.

[nodine]

Originally Posted by Gayleross

We recently took our coach to Josam in Orlando, Fl. They did the pre and post measurements and gave us our copies. Our Caster had to be adjusted significantly even after alignment at Freightliner. We no longer have the wandering and the coach feels much more sure footed. We do still have a small amount of play in the steering wheel. It's certainly not like it was before; but, it's still got some play. Anyone have any suggestions for that?

Here is a link to the thread that covers how to fix the play in the steering. We just received our TRW steering gear and Pitman arm from Weller on Friday and are in the process of collecting tools and other items needed.

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f115/stee...rw-210152.html

Bob

[Dennis_K]

Originally Posted by Gayleross

We recently took our coach to Josam in Orlando, Fl. They did the pre and post measurements and gave us our copies. Our Caster had to be adjusted significantly even after alignment at Freightliner. We no longer have the wandering and the coach feels much more sure footed. We do still have a small amount of play in the steering wheel. It's certainly not like it was before; but, it's still got some play. Anyone have any suggestions for that?

Can you tell us what the pre and post Caster settings were?

[Vanwill]

Rumor has it that Craig (Crazy Knight), the patron saint of the Sheppard-to-TRW steering gear swap, has just purchased 100 acres with a private airport and a hangar the size of a Super Walmart. Guess we all know where to have the next "Watts Link Party". For those of us for whom the drive is too far for our coaches, we could fly our Lear Jets in for the party and stay in one of the guest cottages.

Wait. Maybe we should wait for Craig to chime in. You know how rumors can get exaggerated sometimes...

[CrazyKnight]

Originally Posted by Vanwill

Rumor has it that Craig (Crazy Knight), the patron saint of the Sheppard-to-TRW steering gear swap, has just purchased 100 acres with a private airport and a hangar the size of a Super Walmart. Guess we all know where to have the next "Watts Link Party". For those of us for whom the drive is too far for our coaches, we could fly our Lear Jets in for the party and stay in one of the guest cottages.

Wait. Maybe we should wait for Craig to chime in. You know how rumors can get exaggerated sometimes...

Great NOW I have to purchase a new box of computer screen cleaners....LOL

Well they took down one link but for those of you who will come visit someday:

Real Estate - 2 Homes For Sale | Zillow

3 Acres and I will be installing an RV guest pad with hookups. We close next Friday if all goes as planed, so give me a bit to get my chit together and you are ALL welcome if you are in the vicinity of:

Right Rudder Ranch !

[Vanwill]

Originally Posted by CrazyKnight

Great NOW I have to purchase a new box of computer screen cleaners....LOL

Well they took down one link but for those of you who will come visit someday:

Real Estate - 2 Homes For Sale | Zillow

3 Acres and I will be installing an RV guest pad with hookups. We close next Friday if all goes as planed, so give me a bit to get my chit together and you are ALL welcome if you are in the vicinity of:

Right Rudder Ranch !

Ah, POO! I knew it was too good to be true! At least it wasn't "Left Rudder Ranch"...

Congrats, again, Craig & Angie! Sounds like a "house-warming" party is in order! Angie, you are MY kind of lady! There aren't many ladies who can get excited about moving into a house inside an airplane hangar! I'm sure it will soon have all the personal touches and decorator flair I saw in that teeny-tiny , itty-bitty, super-compact, skyscraping condo in downtown Hotlanta.

Bro, you and Mike Hughes share at least one trait--Your "situation" has been holding you down. Now that you have that fabulous shop, there is no telling what we will be getting in new ideas and prototypes from you. Now, if we can just find a Bridgeport for Mike...

[itdave]

Nice place is that door tall enough to get the RV in the hanger?