Community Forums

rpasetto · 07-29-2013, 05:11 PM

Well, my Notcold decided to give up the ghost. Mrs. P. reported to me that the refrig. was not cooling at all, not even in it's old mediocre way ... strong smell of ammonia told the tale... that was last week. Immediately disconnected power, both 110 and 12volt and shut down the propane.

Knowing it was time I began removing doors shelves, etc to lighten the eventual load, and I learned that NH3 was no friend to my sinuses.

I'd like to thank many of you for your comments, suggestions as well as pictorials of their projects. I followed the steps outlined by Nodine in his thread and many picts of a few years ago...

After recovering from the ammonia and a few days of airing the coach, day 1 began... well, a half day anyway. That was this past Saturday when I bought the lumber and fasteners I thought I needed to get started.... then I built "superdolly" (picture below) and day 1 was done... later on day 2 (today) I was sure glad I chose casters with brakes... they helped keep superdolly stable when it needed to be.

Ernie Ekberg · 07-29-2013, 05:30 PM

I assume a residential refer is in order?

rpasetto · 07-29-2013, 05:47 PM

Then Day 2 reared it's ugly head; that was today. (I should have mentioned that also on Day 1, I disconnected the gas line and plugged the blackiron pipe which was conveniently located in the compartment below where any slim, limber teenager can easily access... that was enough for day1

).

Back to Day 2, my objective was to lighten the thing as much as possible. I began by removing all of the "stuff" behind the fridge... gas valve, water valve, electronic board, etc.

I thought the next easy task would be to remove the six screws, three at the top flange and three at the bottom; then with superdolly deployed in place I'd slide the refrig box out enough to maneuver it to a position where I could remove the "cooling unit" (and I use the term loosely) from the back of the refrig box. I quickly discovered that one of the (square-drive) screws was being ornery. It just would turn but not come out. After I found that drilling the hardened screw head off would take too long I realized the thing to do was to carve away the flange around the screw with my Dremel tool and then get in there with a vise grip.

... and that did the trick.

THe next step worked flawlessly... The box slid out nicely onto superdolly and the locked wheels kept it in place. Unlocking the wheels I rolled the assembly into a place reserved for the next surgical procedure. I briefly tried to recall reading the procedure for removing the unit from the back... oh well... A few capscrews in the box, a few more at the back... the utility knife to cut through some of the ducttape and "voila" the unit was loose... and a lot heavier than I thought. It was at that point I realized there were a few wires yet un-cut... hmmm heavy "cooling unit" in one hand... now, where are those wire cutters.... and it was loose and laying on the floor. Mrs. P. came to the rescue and helped me remove that monstrosity... and there it sits... on the lawn. Glad to be rid of it.

The rest came easily as the box was pretty light now. I removed the door check strap, bungeed it open and removed the "buddy" passenger seat. Now the lightened refrig box passed through and will be on to its junkyard destiny tomorrow.

Following that the Mrs. and I researched and placed an order for a Samsung RF197... and the process continues.

rpasetto · 07-29-2013, 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ernie Ekberg

I assume a residential refer is in order?

Definitely!!!

rpasetto · 07-29-2013, 06:27 PM

And now for the rest of the story... I expect to spend days 3++ in planning the rebuild of the opening. A few questions come to mind as I plan this and I'll appreciate comments from those of you who have done this before...

With the existing opening of 63 1/2" and little if anything to extend the opening upward (Top of opening is about 1 1/'2" from ceiling) I am considering making a shallow storage box above the new refrig instead of building really shallow drawers.
I see Samsung lists the height of their RF197, with hinge, at 69 3/4" however I've seen, somewhere, posts stating the opening height they made was 70 1/4 or 70 1/2". ( can someone confirm opening height they used?) That'd mean that the drawers below would be reduced by around 6 to 7"... not much left there.... or I could make a shallow box at the top, maybe for storing flat trays???
I'll probably follow the nodine method of fastening the bottom of the refrig to the new floor. Bob, how thick were the shims you used for the rear wheels?
I also saw a refrig (Monaco) secured at top with a plate that came down from the top rail extending over the box to the point of the door weatherstrip. That may provide an extra measure of security.
I've seen posts on a whole spectrum of door latches from straps to bungees. The Sugatsune HC 85 seems to be the one manufacturers use but I've also seen

the HC-65
and the BLL-45 from that company.

Also there are the Super TV Grips and various straps, double-sided velcro and ties.

Finally some have said that there is a danger in fastening the latches with screws and suggested using automotive trim tape or various adhesives... DO they last and hold up under the bumps in the road?

Please feel free to share your experiences... and thanks again...

nodine · 07-30-2013, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rpasetto

And now for the rest of the story... I expect to spend days 3++ in planning the rebuild of the opening. A few questions come to mind as I plan this and I'll appreciate comments from those of you who have done this before...

With the existing opening of 63 1/2" and little if anything to extend the opening upward (Top of opening is about 1 1/'2" from ceiling) I am considering making a shallow storage box above the new refrig instead of building really shallow drawers.
I see Samsung lists the height of their RF197, with hinge, at 69 3/4" however I've seen, somewhere, posts stating the opening height they made was 70 1/4 or 70 1/2". ( can someone confirm opening height they used?) That'd mean that the drawers below would be reduced by around 6 to 7"... not much left there.... or I could make a shallow box at the top, maybe for storing flat trays???
I'll probably follow the nodine method of fastening the bottom of the refrig to the new floor. Bob, how thick were the shims you used for the rear wheels?
I also saw a refrig (Monaco) secured at top with a plate that came down from the top rail extending over the box to the point of the door weatherstrip. That may provide an extra measure of security.
I've seen posts on a whole spectrum of door latches from straps to bungees. The Sugatsune HC 85 seems to be the one manufacturers use but I've also seen

the HC-65
and the BLL-45 from that company.

Also there are the Super TV Grips and various straps, double-sided velcro and ties.

Finally some have said that there is a danger in fastening the latches with screws and suggested using automotive trim tape or various adhesives... DO they last and hold up under the bumps in the road?

Please feel free to share your experiences... and thanks again...

Hi Rick, it was nice talking to you on the phone this past weekend. Looks like the project is moving along well. The auto trim tape is amazing. I used it to attach the control box for my Winegard Dish to the top of the equipment cabinet above the driver. That ceiling is a plastic material and the inside of the cabinet gets very warm. The control box is still holding. If that were evern high temp velcro it might not still be there. The down side to the trim tape is cost. I purchased a roll at NAPA and it was $80.

As to the shims, I think you are referring to the shims I made from masonite. The masonite is about 1/8 inch thick. I can't remember if I used one or two pieces. I think I used them to level the frig. You may or may not need shims to level the frig. If it were me I would install the frig flat to the floor and build the small storage area above the frig for cookie sheets, etc. I like the ideal of the all the weight being on the floor. It makes the job easier and if you need to pull the frig out you don't need a dolly.

Keep up the good work and tell Mrs P. we said hi. If you are going to be at the MI Pre-Rally in GA in March we will see you there.

Bob

rpasetto · 07-30-2013, 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nodine

Hi Rick, it was nice talking to you on the phone this past weekend. Looks like the project is moving along well. The auto trim tape is amazing. I used it to attach the control box for my Winegard Dish to the top of the equipment cabinet above the driver. That ceiling is a plastic material and the inside of the cabinet gets very warm. The control box is still holding. If that were evern high temp velcro it might not still be there. The down side to the trim tape is cost. I purchased a roll at NAPA and it was $80.

As to the shims, I think you are referring to the shims I made from masonite. The masonite is about 1/8 inch thick. I can't remember if I used one or two pieces. I think I used them to level the frig. You may or may not need shims to level the frig. If it were me I would install the frig flat to the floor and build the small storage area above the frig for cookie sheets, etc. I like the ideal of the all the weight being on the floor. It makes the job easier and if you need to pull the frig out you don't need a dolly.

Keep up the good work and tell Mrs P. we said hi. If you are going to be at the MI Pre-Rally in GA in March we will see you there.

Bob

Hi Bob, Good to hear from you; thanks for your ideas on the trim tape.

Our current thinking is to place the refrig. as low as possible to the floor. I haven't yet started removing the old floor and face frame from the under-refrig drawers. Once I do that I'll have to look at what I can do to relocate underside wiring and the icemaker feed tube to the rear or sides. That whole mess is hidden right now in the picture...

When I get the Samsung I'll take some measurements and check things out while it sits in my garage. That'll determine whether I need to put in shims, how to do the subfloor and how much of an over-refrigerator cabinet I can make.

The rear access panel has its vents taped over and is back in place to keep major critters out so right now the opening is relatively secured. Carpentry demolition may start today or tomorrow.

...Rick

PyrateSilly · 07-30-2013, 05:52 AM

Take a look a the Samsung RF 217. We saw it at a Best Buy. About the same dimensions but about 1 1/2 cubic feet bigger insides and about the same price as the RF 197.

Ernie Ekberg · 07-30-2013, 05:58 AM

If you have any gaps around the perimeter of the new unit- add some insulation to fill those gaps. if you don't the negative pressure inside the coach going down the road will bring in outside air and mess with your ability to keep your interior comfortable

rpasetto · 07-30-2013, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PyrateSilly

Take a look a the Samsung RF 217. We saw it at a Best Buy. About the same dimensions but about 1 1/2 cubic feet bigger insides and about the same price as the RF 197.

We did look at the RF 217, it seems more readily available than the RF 197 but it's even deeper at 30 1/2" depth vs. the rf197's 28 1/4". Since the RF197 is already quite a bit deeper than the existing cabinet (made for Norcold 1200) we felt the upgrade to the RF 197 will be enough. If you have the space to move and install the rf217 it appears specs are otherwise the same.

rpasetto · 07-30-2013, 06:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ernie Ekberg

If you have any gaps around the perimeter of the new unit- add some insulation to fill those gaps. if you don't the negative pressure inside the coach going down the road will bring in outside air and mess with your ability to keep your interior comfortable

Yes, thanks for the advice. The sealing of the holes in the outside access cover is just a "stop-gap" (pun intended) measure to keep critters out while I do the demolition and cabinet rebuild. I've yet to seal the old chimney vent at the top... not sure what/how I'll do that yet.

Right now the project will be to remove the old norcold floor/shelf and deal with re-routing the maze of wiring run caddy-wumpus behind the old under refrig drawers.

rpasetto · 07-31-2013, 03:37 PM

I guess this is workday #5... I finally got the old floor panel and the lower face frame removed. It's 3/4" plywood, fastened to the walls and face frame with a bunch of pocket screws... and wood glue... and lots of black silicone. It took more that I expected, mostly because the pocket screws had to be removed by hand... at least the ones in the face-frame and floor panel.

I've pretty much decided to rebuild the floor at floor level (or almost) and use whatever space left above as storage. Now I need to figure out how I'll re-route the wires and water line. Thinking of relocating the water shutoff to the underside compartment. Still not sure about a lot of things as the "plan" develops... but the old notcold is history. To be continued.....

bruceisla · 07-31-2013, 04:12 PM

Out of curiosity, why are you closing off the chimney? I used a smaller residential reefer than the Samsung and found it does generate a fair amount of heat.

rpasetto · 07-31-2013, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bruceisla

Out of curiosity, why are you closing off the chimney? I used a smaller residential reefer than the Samsung and found it does generate a fair amount of heat.

Not sure about that yet actually... waiting to hear opinions and experiences of the forum members..... some people say to do it, some not.

There are pluses and minuses here...
- If I leave the chimney open should I seal the cabinet from the inside of the coach? If I do that, from where is the cooling air coming? If I don't then there's a path between inside and outside of coach... for dust, etc.
- If I seal the chimney then inside-coach air must circulate ,,, I guess the common way is in from sides and up/over and out front.

Samsung documentation specifies 3 3/4" at sides, 2" at top for air circulation... I doubt that any refrig has that. The factory built coaches with residential refrig's I've seen have a blank access panel so no air is coming in from outside. I don't know if there's an opening atop...

Hoping to hear others weigh - in on this issue.