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Bob Wilson · 08-27-2007, 10:11 AM

This is the third in a series of five posts on my experiences with a broken frame on our 2004 Excel 36RDO.

On Sunday night, August 19, 2007, I arrived at the Excel Service Center in Smith Center. Having been there once before for warranty work, I knew that the facility has 50 amp power connectors and cable TV hookups outside the service bay doors. This is a great service ... and it isn't unusual for folks to stay in their trailers at night, and then back their trailers into the shop in the morning for service. There's no question that the service center is top notch ... they have a great lounge, restrooms and showers, plus internet access for checking email. All of which are available to Excel'rs who come in for service. And you couldn't ask for friendlier staff.

Early Monday morning, Jack, the service center manager, walked around my trailer with me, listened to all of my concerns, took every one of them seriously, and outlined how they planned to proceed with repairs. Again, top notch service ... everything that I'd expect from a gold-standard service facility.

Of course, some of my concerns and expectations were outside Jack's responsibility. He couldn't promise that there wasn't hidden damage from the frame failure and subsequent sagging that might not appear until years down the road. He couldn't promise that there would be no loss of value at trade-in time. Jack set out to do what he could ... fix the problems that could be seen, and any that became apparent during the repairs.

Here's where the story gets a bit ugly from my perspective. Turns out, Excel was aware that there was a problem in the original frame design, and they had applied patches to all undelivered 36RDOs. However, they did not deem it necessary to issue a service bulletin to dealers, or a recall notice to owners, to have the problem corrected on trailers already delivered. And so, prior to my trailer arriving in Smith Center, Excel had already seen five other unmodified trailers of the same model with frame failure. The good news for me, they knew how to fix the problem.

Turns out too that the previous five damaged trailers, plus mine, were equipped with Dexter Torflex axles. The conclusion being that the axles were contributing to the problem. So Jack called me on Tuesday to say that they planned to install new spring axles under my trailer, at no cost to me ... he said the new axles would ride better. Of course I was really pleased to be getting the new axles, and told Jack so; but was then confused when visiting the Dexter site to find that they believe the Torflex axles ride better and have a five year warranty instead of a two-year warranty on the spring axles.

In the end, to fix the broken frame; the axles were removed, the original welds repaired, a 3" square by eight- to ten-foot section of boxed steel was added below the original frame rails (acting as a riser) and the new axles were then mounted to the new pieces of box steel. Looks very solid and the trailer no longer sags. A fringe benefit is the trailer now rides level behind my 4x4 Dodge dually.

Had this retrofit been completed a year ago, when the pattern of failure was apparent, the damage to my trailer from sagging might have been eliminated; and there would have been no exposure to the safety risk of towing a trailer with frame damage. Too, in all likelihood, I would have been able to schedule the repair to coincide with one of my cross-country trips, as opposed to making an unscheduled trip solely for repair.

Once the frame work was complete, all of the slides were adjusted and repaired. In addition, the interior wallboard around the sofa slide was replaced. I'll provide more specifics in the next post.

In January 2008 I'll be returning to have the fiberglass on the curb side replaced from the entry door to the rear cap ... almost 2/3rd of the side of the trailer. At that time the frame repairs will be examined as a precaution. Hopefully everything frame-related will be just fine.

Bob Wilson · 08-27-2007, 10:11 AM

This is the third in a series of five posts on my experiences with a broken frame on our 2004 Excel 36RDO.

On Sunday night, August 19, 2007, I arrived at the Excel Service Center in Smith Center. Having been there once before for warranty work, I knew that the facility has 50 amp power connectors and cable TV hookups outside the service bay doors. This is a great service ... and it isn't unusual for folks to stay in their trailers at night, and then back their trailers into the shop in the morning for service. There's no question that the service center is top notch ... they have a great lounge, restrooms and showers, plus internet access for checking email. All of which are available to Excel'rs who come in for service. And you couldn't ask for friendlier staff.

Early Monday morning, Jack, the service center manager, walked around my trailer with me, listened to all of my concerns, took every one of them seriously, and outlined how they planned to proceed with repairs. Again, top notch service ... everything that I'd expect from a gold-standard service facility.

Of course, some of my concerns and expectations were outside Jack's responsibility. He couldn't promise that there wasn't hidden damage from the frame failure and subsequent sagging that might not appear until years down the road. He couldn't promise that there would be no loss of value at trade-in time. Jack set out to do what he could ... fix the problems that could be seen, and any that became apparent during the repairs.

Here's where the story gets a bit ugly from my perspective. Turns out, Excel was aware that there was a problem in the original frame design, and they had applied patches to all undelivered 36RDOs. However, they did not deem it necessary to issue a service bulletin to dealers, or a recall notice to owners, to have the problem corrected on trailers already delivered. And so, prior to my trailer arriving in Smith Center, Excel had already seen five other unmodified trailers of the same model with frame failure. The good news for me, they knew how to fix the problem.

Turns out too that the previous five damaged trailers, plus mine, were equipped with Dexter Torflex axles. The conclusion being that the axles were contributing to the problem. So Jack called me on Tuesday to say that they planned to install new spring axles under my trailer, at no cost to me ... he said the new axles would ride better. Of course I was really pleased to be getting the new axles, and told Jack so; but was then confused when visiting the Dexter site to find that they believe the Torflex axles ride better and have a five year warranty instead of a two-year warranty on the spring axles.

In the end, to fix the broken frame; the axles were removed, the original welds repaired, a 3" square by eight- to ten-foot section of boxed steel was added below the original frame rails (acting as a riser) and the new axles were then mounted to the new pieces of box steel. Looks very solid and the trailer no longer sags. A fringe benefit is the trailer now rides level behind my 4x4 Dodge dually.

Had this retrofit been completed a year ago, when the pattern of failure was apparent, the damage to my trailer from sagging might have been eliminated; and there would have been no exposure to the safety risk of towing a trailer with frame damage. Too, in all likelihood, I would have been able to schedule the repair to coincide with one of my cross-country trips, as opposed to making an unscheduled trip solely for repair.

Once the frame work was complete, all of the slides were adjusted and repaired. In addition, the interior wallboard around the sofa slide was replaced. I'll provide more specifics in the next post.

In January 2008 I'll be returning to have the fiberglass on the curb side replaced from the entry door to the rear cap ... almost 2/3rd of the side of the trailer. At that time the frame repairs will be examined as a precaution. Hopefully everything frame-related will be just fine.

Max1 · 08-27-2007, 03:39 PM

Bob
I read your posts with intrest as my problem is a tough one as well that for PI to try and resolve would potentialy result in a recall so they wont admit to there being a problem even though Norcold states that the definitive answer to my fridge problem is that its installed incorrectly and to take it backt to the installer. Guess what PI refuses to help. Read my Refridgerator post if your curious and my pointis that in my opinon even a supposed top notch outfit will try to shake resonsibility if its to big of an issue. Again my opinon only!
Thanks.

Bob Wilson · 08-27-2007, 04:11 PM

Hi Max1,

Wow ... that's quite a string of posts regarding your refer problem. I know how frustrating it is to be passed from dealer to manufacturer to vendor ... none taking responsibility. I feel bad for you.

I'm sure when you selected Excel you expected that they meant what they said: "Excel's 2-Year Total Trust Warranty is your guarantee that, in the unlikely event something goes wrong with your Excel fifth wheel, we'll fix it. It's that simple."

Does Excel still have your total trust?

Max1 · 08-27-2007, 06:32 PM

Bob,
Is what really irritates me is there lack of accountability and I am sure they have justified in there minds why they are right though it is interesting when Norcold comes right out and says its wrong not to mention several other RV Techs that have physically looked at it as well as various other people from this board and elsewhere that all say basically the same as Norcold Improper Installation Also its interesting to note that its people from this board that helped me to find a temporary solution to this problem even if it is just a bandaid as TXiceman who is a Mechanical Engineer I now learn and had suspected by the content his posts thanks Ken.
Total trust not even close though I will say on the numerous smaller things that keep comming up they have tried to help and are easy to contact though on this big issue they have lost my respect. That said i can accept most any thing if one is just willing to be accountable and straight forward and meet things head on with out silly excuses like most people dont monitor Refer temperature or food wont spoil at temps in the mid 40s among other ridiculous statments Ive heard from them wich I feel is not only a insult to my intelligence but also to the other people with good common sense that have took the time to look at this with an open mind in hopes of helping me find a solution and to them I say thank you very much.
Bob I do hope you have your issue resolved and am glad we have a forum like this to get the word out an issues as well as a venue to find solutions to problems that manufactures of RVs are either unwilling or unable to fix. I know I for one am very impressed with the knowledge and obvious experince people on this board have to offer.
Thanks.

Bob Wilson · 08-28-2007, 06:14 PM

Hi Paul,

You know, from reading my posts, that I was really frustrated with Jack's response when I was initially trying to make an appointment ... so I know how frustrating it is when it seems that a legitimate customer concern seems to falling on deaf ears.

But, that said, Jack's a great guy doing the very best he can with the resources available to him. PI isn't his company. Decisions to deal with unusual repair issues are Bryan's call. I'd go straight to the President.

Also, in terms of your reference to accountability ... keep in mind that my trailer is off warranty. The factory could have told me to take a hike. Of course, if they had, I would have hired a lawyer to argue that their suppression of the fact that there was a flaw in the design until after the warranty expired did not relieve them of responsibility. But the point is, no one at Excel, even once, brought up the issue that my trailer is off warranty. In my book that shows that they do feel accountable to fix their errors.

Max1 · 08-29-2007, 06:54 AM

Bob,
On accountability I am refering to my improper refridgerator installation. Beyond that from what I am gathering from your other posts there seems to be a bit of a pattern and your below statement I beleive sums it up very well. [QUOTE] It's one thing to work to fix a problem after you've been caught; it's another to fix it when you become aware of it. I had hoped that a gold standard company would do the latter [/QUOTE]
It sort of reminds me of the shoplifter who wants to put the item back on the shelf after they are caught. Is that being accountable??

ExcelRVGuy · 08-29-2007, 07:34 AM

As some of you know, I monitor this forum daily. However, I have a personal policy to not engage in individual customer issues in a public forum. Little, if anything positive can be gained from that, so this will be my ONLY post concerning this issue. However, I cannot sit here morning after morning and read as Mr. Wilson bashes our integrity.

My grandmother died several years ago. I admired her wisdom and she taught me something that seems to hold true as I grow older. "Just because we read it in print, doesn't necessarily make it fact."

I will not make light that Mr. Wilson's frame issue was serious in nature and has created him and Peterson Industries considerable expense. His frame issue did NOT, however pose a safety risk, nor have the frames of the previous units. Because he says it does on this forum, does not necessarily make it fact.

We asked him to bring it to the factory for repair. As stated in our warranty: "The owner is responsible for expenses incurred in delivery of their unit to and from the authorized dealership or the factory."

I find it interesting in his bashing us about our lack of "Gold Star" service, he failed to disclose that Peterson Industries paid over $600 for him and his wife to stay in a Marriott Hotel while the repairs on his three year old + trailer were being made. We did that because we felt a moral obligation to do so and NOT because we had contractual obligation to do so.

As for his call to Dexter Axles, and them stating that their torsion axles provide a smoother ride than their twin-I leaf spring system, I can only say that we have found much less bouncing problems on EXCEL fifth wheels when we install the standard twin-I, leaf spring system. That is why we removed the torsion axles and installed the new twin-I, leaf spring system on his three year old + coach at NO EXPENSE to him. (POST NOTE: Mr. Wilson called this morning from Boise, ID with a bearing failure on his new "Nev-R-Lube" axle. We have authorized repair at our expense. I'm sure you will soon hear about this problem also on this forum)

As for factory recalls, we base that decision on units that pose safety risks, and/or epidemic problems, of which, it is our decision that Mr. Wilson's problem does not fall into either of these categories. Because a particular customer writes on this forum that we should have a Nation wide recall, doesn't necessarily make it fact. We don't make major decisions like that based on forum opinion polls and/or whether a particular customer is going to bad-mouth us or not.

So, while it is true that Mr. Wilson has a future appointment at Peterson Industries to finish the repair of his frame issue, whether he chooses to continue to bash the integrity of our company or not will have no effect on the fact that we will do the absolute best job we can to repair his coach to as close to "like new" condition as possible.

We cannot promise that a customer will never have a problem with their coach. After all, if you think about it, RV's are similar to a home in an earthquake zone. Bad things can and do happen to good RV's. We believe that we ARE providing Mr. Wilson "gold star" service, and will continue to do so regardless of how he tries to portray our company on this, or any other forum.

Respectfully,
Bryan Tillett
President
Peterson Industries, Inc.

Highgturn · 08-29-2007, 08:03 AM

I knew there were two sides. I'm holding a grave side service for this dead horse. Anybody care to join me?

ChiefJohn · 08-29-2007, 09:17 AM

Amen Bob!

Bob Wilson · 08-30-2007, 04:42 AM

Hi Bryan,

I appreciate you posting Excel's side of the story ... owners and prospective owners benefit from information ... glowing stories of satisfaction (as posted by Maverick), stories of disappointment (mine), and everything in between. Each perspective and experience helps us be better informed consumers.

I'm sorry that you feel I've been bashing Excel ... that isn't my intent ... what good can come from that? I tried to say many good things about Excel. The wonderful responses by tamitchell point out that "In his posts Bob said a lot of positive things about PI, he even stated there were no villains, praised the service center, stated positive experiences out weighted the negative, and other. He didn't have anything bad to say about the repair work, only the visual appearance of the coach."

It's hard for me to debate the safety issue of frame failure, because unless there is a catastrophic failure, there really is no proof of risk; and acceptable risk is in the eye of the beholder. As discussed elsewhere on this forum, some folks exceed the manufacturers' capacity ratings of their tow vehicles while others step up to MDT or HDT trucks rather than take the risk. I guess I fall into the risk averse category ... I just replaced the stock wheels and tires on my trailer with 17.5s with 6,000lb capacity per tire.

But what I do know for certain is what the Eugene Oregon Excel dealer wrote on my warranty service report: "Rear frame cracking, per factory, weld supports at frame to hopefully support until customer can get back to factory for repairs." Perhaps I totally misunderstood, but the word ˜hopefully' had me watching my mirrors and holding my breath until I arrived at the factory.

In terms of asking me to bring the trailer to the factory for repair, that's a somewhat incomplete truth. When I called from Florida with concerns and trip plans that would take me through Kansas in ten days, I was told I would have to wait five months for an appointment. When I visited the Excel dealer in Eugene, I was told they could not fix the problem and I could pick up the un-repaired trailer. It was only then, after I begged the dealer to contact PI, that I was asked to return to the factory.

Yes, as I've disclosed, PI covered the cost of the repairs even though the factory warranty had expired; but to imply that this was going above and beyond the call seems a bit disingenuous to me. Jack can confirm that when I arrived I provided him with the policy number for the seven year extended warranty that I had purchased through my Excel dealer; a policy that specifically covers the chassis and frame (plus other components) through June 2011. As far as I know, PI did not try to bill the repairs to the insurance company ... I don't know why. But I had planned ahead ... I was not throwing myself on your mercy.

As for the hotel, I had debated whether to disclose the payment ... I'm glad you did. I hadn't originally for three reasons: 1) no offer was made to cover any expenses of the special trip back to Kansas until near the end of my week-long stay near Smith Center; 2) while I appreciated the gesture, part of me suspected that the late offer to cover part of the cost of the hotel, which was less than one third of my total trip costs, was made more in hopes of influencing what I would say on this forum ... the offer came after I told you I would be posting about my experiences; and 3) I have yet to cash the check ... I can send it back if you'd like ... let me know.

Throughout my posts I've tried to be truthful and balanced ... whether I've succeeded can only be judged by the reader. My agenda is simple and three-fold ... 1) to provide the story of one customer's experiences, to add to the many stories posted here; 2) to perhaps influence PI to take a more proactive role in providing customer service ... five-month lead times for service of critical issues seems too long to me, and choosing to not to notify customers or dealers when a trend of failure emerges can result is avoidable subsequent damage; and 3) to get the word out to other owners of 36RDOs, who perhaps have fewer miles than on my trailer, to be alert for the problem ... the type of notification that I had hoped to receive from PI.