Safe to tow Excel 36' with 1-ton truck?

[Dutch_man39]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bob Wilson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I understand that PI builds an excellent 5th wheel, but don't understand why they have to be so heavy. Other brands of similar quality, NuWa and Carriage Cameo for example, come in with lower overall weights than Excel. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bill,

NuWa and Carriage are excellent brands ... we looked at them too before buying our Excel. The biggest difference, from my perspective, is wood versus aluminum framing in walls and roof. Condensation is a big problem for all RVs in cool climates, and wood does not conduct the cold into the trailer. Perhaps this is one of the reasons Excel is able to offer a -10 degree guarantee, while Carriage and Nu-Wa don't. It does appear that wood framing is heavier (Tetons are heavy too) than aluminum.

Bob </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

NuWa uses wood framing in their Champagne models and minimal aluminum framing in the Discover America models. The vacu-bonding with the Blue Dow foam in the sidewalls provides excellent insulation and allows them to use only a minimum amount of aluminum framing. I believe this is why NuWay Discover America's are lighter than the Excel with the heavy wood framing all around.

The -10 degree guarantee doesn't interest me as we don't plan to ever be in those conditions! We'll be following "old sol" around the country to keep warm.

Bill

[HB Phil]

The great Excel insulation kept our trailer cooler than our house during the last heat wave - we actually slept comfortably in the trailer in the driveway with just the Fantastic fan going.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dutch_man39:
The -10 degree guarantee doesn't interest me as we don't plan to ever be in those conditions! We'll be following "old sol" around the country to keep warm.

Bill </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Dutch_man39]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dutch_man39:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by D and J:
Also, (Dutchman) MDT's and HDT's are very cost effective, unless you "need" to buy a new sportchassis off the lot. You just need to do a good search through truckpaper or horse trailer world's classified adds if you want find a great deal on a used one. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

It's not just the initial cost to buy, but the ongoing maintenance costs of these big trucks, especially a used one that may have hidden problems that bite you later on. At $90/Hr+++ labor costs at most maintenance facilities and the high cost of the heavy duty parts on these big trucks you better have deep pockets too.

I was burned badly on a "slightly used" Monaco Knight Class A DP motorhome. I had it for 2 years and had nothing but problems with bad brakes and a leaking radiator. Those 2 problems alone set me back big $. It got to the point that I was afraid to use it for fear something else would go wrong.

Now we would prefer to buy a new truck and a new trailer and take good care of both of them.

Bill </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

[Dutch_man39]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by HB Phil:
The great Excel insulation kept our trailer cooler than our house during the last heat wave - we actually slept comfortably in the trailer in the driveway with just the Fantastic fan going.

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Dutch_man39:
The -10 degree guarantee doesn't interest me as we don't plan to ever be in those conditions! We'll be following "old sol" around the country to keep warm.

Bill </div></BLOCKQUOTE> </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I agree that good insulation is a must, that's why we'll only buy a 5th wheel that is rated for "fulltime use". It must be well constructed with good insulation, dual pane windows, etc. This will be our fulltime home for the next several years so it must be a quality product.

Bill

[Jim & Bona]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Bob Wilson:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">I understand that PI builds an excellent 5th wheel, but don't understand why they have to be so heavy. Other brands of similar quality, NuWa and Carriage Cameo for example, come in with lower overall weights than Excel. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bill,

NuWa and Carriage are excellent brands ... we looked at them too before buying our Excel. The biggest difference, from my perspective, is wood versus aluminum framing in walls and roof. Condensation is a big problem for all RVs in cool climates, and wood does not conduct the cold into the trailer. Perhaps this is one of the reasons Excel is able to offer a -10 degree guarantee, while Carriage and Nu-Wa don't. It does appear that wood framing is heavier (Tetons are heavy too) than aluminum.

Bob </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

(Chief, I know the following is wandering off-topic. A new thread may be in order.)

Regarding the weight difference between the NuWa Champagne and the Excel Limited, during my research to decide between these two models, I did my best to "normalize" the weights by adding/deleting weight for standard features on each as well as for nominal differences in length. It looked to me like an 35XXX came in 600# -800# heavier than the nearest comparable Champagne. After visiting both factories and paying special attention to the frame, I believe that most of the weight differtial is in the frame. The NuWa frame appears, to me at least, to be the result of a fairly sophisticated Stress Analysis (computer software) which provides an adequate design margin (i.e., margin of safety) without excessive weight (read "steel, fabrication labor, and COST). I suspect that the frames on our Excels are more the result of "Empirical Engineering" developed and supported by years of rigorous field trials (by us). Personally, I'm more comfortable with a few extra pounds of steel under my rolling home.

Just my opinion.

JR

[ChiefJohn]

JR,
You're on the same path, that's what matters. I appreciate your sharing your weight analysis of NuWa Champagne and Excel comparable 5th wheel models and I'll also opt for the over engineering frame (on edit, removed the words 'versus marginal' which wasn't directed towards a specific manufacturer).

I never meant to imply that you could not adequately tow any Excel coach with a 1-ton truck that was properly optioned. We went with a larger TV for the economics, comfort, and tow capability/handling. Economics, we have approximately 36K invested in our TV which, if taken care of, will outlast our RV'ing days; we can purchase fuel in at the lowest price, not because the tank(s) are nearing empty -- 300 gal. capacity and average 10.5 mpg; comfort, our TV is titled/licensed as a MH, with an on-board generator, refrigerator, microwave, two bunks, axillary heating and A/C; and, TV capability/handling, our HDT turns in a smaller radius than our previous F-350 4WD, DW, crew cab, cruise at 65 mph over hill and dale and descend steep grades with minimal trailer braking...

Sorry about the rambling folks, I just wanted to place my previous post on this topic in perspective. I understand that 1-size does not fit all and did not mean to imply that our approach was the best for everyone.

In closing, I will state that, IMO, nothing less than a 1-ton truck should be utilized for towing a 5th-wheel.

[Butch50]

A number of years back I built up a 96 Volvo with a bed (I designed the bed and then had it built) and it was licensed as a MH also. But because of hand troubles my DR. didn't really want me to drive that size of rig with the shifting and all (this was before the influx of all the auto shifts). I agree that nothing pulls nicer but now we are also wanting a truck camper so that couldn't be done with the Volvo so I guess I'll have to stick with my little F550 with a pickup bed.

Here are some pictures of my old Volvo

[MakinSmoke]

Butch,
Nice looking hauler.

Personally, I don't mind the extra steel. Makes me feel better...I read somewhere that hauling the these homes around was similar to them being exposed to an earthquake on the order of 3 on the richter scale. (Can't document that) but regardless, seems to me the heavier the better but I like stuff big anyway.

[Dutch_man39]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by ChiefJohn:
JR,
You're on the same path, that's what matters. I appreciate your sharing your weight analysis of NuWa Champagne and Excel comparable 5th wheel models and I'll also opt for the over engineering versus marginal. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

John,

NuWay is the oldest existing manufacturer of 5th wheels, 36 years and still a leader in the industry. To say they have a marginal frame is less than accurate! They use two frame manufacurers, Lippert and Young's, depending on the model. Both have been in business for years and build frames for many 5th wheel manufacturers. I suggest you log onto NuWa's website http://www.nuwa.com/videos/and view the 4 part video on how they build their 5th wheels. You might learn something.

By the way, I have no connection with NuWay or any other manufacturer. I'm just a guy who wants to buy a good, reliable 5th wheel that I can tow safely with a 1 ton DRW truck.

Bill

[MakinSmoke]

Bill,
Remembering that I am not an engineer and for that matter, not very mechanical. I sat behind a desk most of my worklife. I went to the website and listened/watched NuWa's segment on frames. Looks to me like they use 14" C-frame steel in their high end coaches as their frame. In my L36CLO it looks like 12" boxed steel and at least from what I can see, part of the frame has 8" boxed steel welded to the top of the 12" boxed steel. I guess I wouldn't have chosen "marginal" as the descriptive word for the NuWa frame but I think I'd rather have the 12" boxed steel.

[Eddie & Renee]

Well I can tell you that I feel safe towing my 2005 36RDE with my 2005 F-350 PSD DRW longbed with Tow Boss package. Starts and stops with no worries.

[Bob Wilson]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Well I can tell you that I feel safe towing my 2005 36RDE with my 2005 F-350 PSD DRW longbed with Tow Boss package. Starts and stops with no worries. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Hi Eddie & Renee,

Thanks for bringing this thread back to the 'towing with a 1 ton' question.

Bob

[ChiefJohn]

quote:
Originally posted by ChiefJohn:
JR,
You're on the same path, that's what matters. I appreciate your sharing your weight analysis of NuWa Champagne and Excel comparable 5th wheel models and I'll also opt for the over engineering versus marginal.[/quote]


<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">John,
NuWay is the oldest existing manufacturer of 5th wheels, 36 years and still a leader in the industry. To say they have a marginal frame is less than accurate! They use two frame manufacurers, Lippert and Young's, depending on the model. Both have been in business for years and build frames for many 5th wheel manufacturers. I suggest you log onto NuWa's website http://www.nuwa.com/videos/and view the 4 part video on how they build their 5th wheels. You might learn something.

By the way, I have no connection with NuWay or any other manufacturer. I'm just a guy who wants to buy a good, reliable 5th wheel that I can tow safely with a 1 ton DRW truck.

Bill </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Bill,
I sincerely wish you the best in finding a 5th wheel that meets your requirements.

In the fuure, don't read more into a post than what's been presented. No where in JR's original post or in my response were NuWa's frames described as "marginal". What I said was "I appreciate your sharing your weight analysis of NuWa Champagne and Excel comparable 5th wheel models and I'll also opt for the over engineering versus marginal." as relates to 5th wheel frames in general.

[DeepDoc1]

I know this thread is about the 36xxx (~38') rigs, but the 33xxx (~35') rigs are only ~1250# lighter. I have assumed an F-350 Tow Boss will handle the 33xxx's with margin to spare. Is that the general consensus? Thanks.