Starting electrical sys

[Bruce and Jenna]

Getting down to a week or two to order our 33RSE. Now I be thinkin' about the electrical system.

I have been dissuaded from starting off with a PV system till I can better judge our needs. But what 'bout the standard electrical system on the rig? Two 12v and a 600w inverter I believe. (Sure would like more tech specs on that PI web site, you betcha.) Is that enough to start out (immediately) on a few days boondocking? Should I get another set of batteries? Any other mods I should consider?

Lastly, did you enhance your wiring in your TV for more current to the trailer? In the book A Complete Guide to Full-Time RVing, Bill Moeller upgraded his TV charging line to 4 gauge.

Did I mention, "Just a week or two now?"

[Bruce and Jenna]

Getting down to a week or two to order our 33RSE. Now I be thinkin' about the electrical system.

I have been dissuaded from starting off with a PV system till I can better judge our needs. But what 'bout the standard electrical system on the rig? Two 12v and a 600w inverter I believe. (Sure would like more tech specs on that PI web site, you betcha.) Is that enough to start out (immediately) on a few days boondocking? Should I get another set of batteries? Any other mods I should consider?

Lastly, did you enhance your wiring in your TV for more current to the trailer? In the book A Complete Guide to Full-Time RVing, Bill Moeller upgraded his TV charging line to 4 gauge.

Did I mention, "Just a week or two now?"

[HB Phil]

Even if you installed adequate gauge wire, and even though your dual alternators probably have adequate charge voltage/current, stock TV alterntors are regulated for charging TV start batteries which charge at different rates than deep cycle batteries.

Therefore, your alternators may see that your start battery is charged and reduce voltage/current and then fail to charge your deep cycle batteries (most likely), or, they could deliver the full power of your dual alternators and could cook your batteries from too much voltage/current for an overly prolonged period.

Many boating/marine alternator charging systems have "smart" regulators and islolators that can simultaneously charge both the "start" and "house" batteries. These systems are common on motorhomes too. They sense the charge in both battery banks and then isolate whichever bank gets charged first while continuing to charge the other if needed. They can be set to simultaneously charge dissimilar types of batteries, (AGM/House vs Flooded cell lead acid/Starting).

There are "smart" regulators available as "plug and play" upgrades for alternators that will provide three stage battery charging. But these may be mainly for marine alternators. However, I wouldn't be surprised if there was one for RV's and even for your truck too.

I am thinking about isolating a small set of batteries for use solely to operate my slides and levelers. That way if something happens to my main bank of batteries, I will still have the juice needed in the islolated set of batteries to get me out of the woods. This "Balmar Duo Digital Charge" would do the trick.

[Bruce and Jenna]

[HB Phil]

Hi Bruce and Jenna,

I am also about to take delivery of a new 5th wheel. However, we've been towing a travel trailer for about 10 years so I have some experience that I'll share that may give you some idea of what you can do as far as dry camping and trailer tanks and batteries go.

We prefer boondocking/dry camping. Most of our camping has been limited to vacation time, usually about 4 weeks split into two, 2 week trips/year.

Our pattern was to hop from camp ground-to-campground staying, at most, 4 nights/5 days each. This 3-4 night period was usually the limit of both our tanks (40 fresh/40 Gray/40 Black) and our battery capacity (2 group 27 deep cycles).

To stretch the tanks, whenever possible we would use the excellent shower facilities at the nicer Calif State Parks.

We did not have an inverter. Our main electric energy consumer was the furnace. Mostly we'd camp in the winter in Northern Calif and in the mountains in early summer, about mid-30's at night. We warm the trailer up to 65 in the morning for breakfast and again in the evening until about 10 p.m. then keep the thermostat at 55 overnight/sleeping. We average about 50 Amphours per day.

We used 2 Costco/Kirkland Group 27 Deep Cycle batteries, about $115 for both. We heavily abused them discharging them to nearly zero then charging up on the morning of our departure and while enroute to the next campground. We'd go through a set of two batteries about every three seasons. Given the abuse we gave them, the Costco batteries served us very well.

Now that I am setting up our rig for retirement and for plans to spend far more time boondocking, we want more power and more comfort for these extended trips.

Consequently, I am installing a solar power system, an inverter/charger and a 1,000 Amphour bank of batteries.

We would like to have about 150 Amphours/day and be able to go w/o sunlight charging for three day before hitting 50% discharge of the batteries - which is the golden rule if you want to get the most life from your batteries: Don't discharge below 50% and fully recharge them frequently. The added 100 Amphours would be for maybe a coffee maker, using the microwave to warm things (Mac/Cheese for my boy), and for using the trailer's TV/DVD Player and, some more heat!

The solar panel route is very expensive. A small generator is more cost effective, if you don't mind running generators. We like the idea of being "off-grid" and using solar - seeing how long we can go.

We have been using a Honda 3,500 construction type generator very sparingly. We preferred just letting the batteries run down rather than to disturb everyone with the generator noise.

We just purchased a new Yamaha 2400iS to supplement the solar power to bring the batteries to float stage if/when needed when the sun doesn't cooperate. This is a very quiet unit which has enough power for my 100 Amp charger.

My advice is to start with two group 27 deep cycle batteries. They have a lot of punch in them. They will give you a chance to gauge your style/power consumption. For example two group 27's are about 200 Amphours. If you drain them in two days then your power consumption is about 100 Amp hours/day. Then you can better assess the size battery bank that best fits your needs.

Also it takes a little practice to stretch things a little with some conservation measures. Most are common sense like tunrning off lights and keeping the furnace turned down as low as possible. Using park facilities to wash dishes (if any use paper plates!) and shower. Many full timers use catalytic heaters to supplement their furnace. There are many websites about rv solar power and 12 volt DC usage and conservation.

You don't have to do anything exotic. Your trailer will give you at least a few good nights out with two group 27's! Some folks like to move on and explore and the batteries will get some charge in the process. But a pair of group 27's will need about 8 hours on a charger for a full charge from 80% discharge. You may want to get a small Honda and keep them up in the top 50% by topping them off for an hour or two per day.

Good Luck!

[Bruce and Jenna]

Thanks so much, HB, for your thoughtful, exhaustive, and erudite reply on electrical needs. Now I need to get the specs from Peterson on the batteries they install. (For all the high quality in their rigs, they sure don't give your much detail on their web site and in their literature. Like the batteries.)

I did mistype tho; it comes with a 60 amp converter, not an inverter. I'm also getting a heat pump for more flexibility in heating.

I also want to learn more about the charging capacity of the dual alternators in my F350, particularly possibly upgrading the charging line for additional current to the trailer. O' course that may also require increasing the wiring down to the converter, or however the current gets from the trailer plug to the batteries.

Thanks again. Anyone else know about the charging lines from TV alternator to house batteries?

[hotair]

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Now I need to get the specs from Peterson on the batteries they install. (For all the high quality in their rigs, they sure don't give your much detail on their web site and in their literature. Like the batteries.) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Batteries are more generally a dealer install. We have 2 golf cart batteries, they tend to tolerate discharge better and are of somewhat higher capacity, However for longer term off grid (say over a week) you will need an alternative source of power.

On various forums there are extended discussions of all this, some of the info is even useful.

[LindaH]

Bruce and Jenna, as Hotair said, your rig won't come installed with batteries from the factory...those will be provided by the dealer. So, if you have some particular batteries in mind, you might let your dealer know what you want.

We've replaced the one (!) battery that our dealer provided with 4 AGM batteries. They're expensive, but we're putting all 4 of them up front where it's not vented, thus our choice. Sometime next week we're having 4 AM Solar 100-watt panels and their HPV22B controller installed plus a 2000-watt true sine wave inverter/charger installed.

This is probably overkill for most people who aren't fulltimers and who don't do a lot of boondocking/dry camping, but since the majority of our camping is boondocking/dry camping, it'll suit us just fine.

[HB Phil]

Bruce and Jenna, while we are on the topic, you may want to consider some type of protection for your unit against power surge, low/high voltage and other problems.

Surge Guard and Progressive Industries EMS units offer both plug-in and hard wired units that do about the same thing. There are lots of horror stories of folks getting their rv's and appliances toasted ranging from overloaded power systems at campgrounds, lightning strikes and campground owners fiddling with their power systems - oopsies - toasting dozens of rv's!

[Bruce and Jenna]

Good advice there, HB. I've been reading this thread. RV.NET forum

[HB Phil]

Yep, that's the thread that got me interested in getting electrical protection.

We mostly boondock w/o plug-ins but it'd be just my (Murphy's Law) luck that the 1st hook-up place we take our new trailer would get hit by lightning or some other "imponderable."

I'm also installing a lightning arrestor on the solar panel connections. There will be a lot of wire and aluminum frames up on the roof. Without a true ground rod (in the ground), I don't know how effective it will be. Hopefully it can take the edge of of near hits and ambiant charges/surges.

I guess nothing helps in a direct strike.

[Bruce and Jenna]

I guess nothing helps in a direct strike.

A notarized will.