ACE Generator Stops running - CODE 36

[Harlee79]

I've been waiting on the official fix from thor to be ready but it's been a while now. Have they settled on their fix? Perhaps Lisa's fix? If anyone has any recent info let us know. Thanks.

[Murphsfromaz]

Mine is in the shop right now and the GM for my Camping World actually called me yesterday and said Thor is still telling them "They are working on a solution?!"

[Moonshine94]

Originally Posted by Harlee79

I've been waiting on the official fix from thor to be ready but it's been a while now. Have they settled on their fix? Perhaps Lisa's fix? If anyone has any recent info let us know. Thanks.

The proposed fix for the 29.2 is a genset relocation to the compartment where the LPG tank currently resides. Genset exhaust to go straight out the rear. LPG tank relocated to where the genset currently is, so just a straight swap between the two. I've volunteered my bus to be the guinea pig. Time will tell if that was a good idea. The transport company is supposed to pick my bus up in the next day or two to transport it to Elkhart. I'm promised my bus back (fixed) by Aug 30. I'll post anything I hear or learn.

[Randog]

Originally Posted by Moonshine94

The proposed fix for the 29.2 is a genset relocation to the compartment where the LPG tank currently resides. Genset exhaust to go straight out the rear. LPG tank relocated to where the genset currently is, so just a straight swap between the two. I've volunteered my bus to be the guinea pig. Time will tell if that was a good idea. The transport company is supposed to pick my bus up in the next day or two to transport it to Elkhart. I'm promised my bus back (fixed) by Aug 30. I'll post anything I hear or learn.

I would have no part of this plan at all. I use a additional propane outlet off the high side of the regulator for my BBQ. I couldn't do that with the propane tank on the other side of the coach. Also I wouldn't want to listen to the generator right under the bed. This is the reason they locate them to the front. This is just an " amputation" to the fix. Plus I don't know about you but I live in CA, how many miles would be put on my coach? About 2000 because that is what I had on it when I picked it up and I assume they drove it here from Indiana. How long will they have it? Is Thor paying the loan payment? Are they going to extend my warrantee? Are they going to extend the Ford warrantee ?

Maybe these questions should be asked.......

[DegoRed]

Hate to say it, but im not good with moving the generator to the where the propane tank is located and vise versa. That propane tank has no business anywhere near that much heat. You think you have problems now, just wait till that propane tank starts venting, which will happen with that kind of heat exposure.

Without going into a whole long story, please trust me on this. Do not let Thor put that propane tank there. My father was killed by a propane tank almost identical to these exploding. I would not wish this kind of an accident on anyone.

I am also with Randog, its very easy for me to pull my BBQ out of trunk, plug in, and turn on. Not sure I want to be dragging that thing up to the front of coach on opposite side of coach door. I typically make lots of trips to BBQ when cooking from inside coach.

Here are a couple of pictures to help you visualize how deadly propane can be.

[Moonshine94]

Originally Posted by Randog

I would have no part of this plan at all. I use a additional propane outlet off the high side of the regulator for my BBQ. I couldn't do that with the propane tank on the other side of the coach. Also I wouldn't want to listen to the generator right under the bed. This is the reason they locate them to the front. This is just an " amputation" to the fix. Plus I don't know about you but I live in CA, how many miles would be put on my coach? About 2000 because that is what I had on it when I picked it up and I assume they drove it here from Indiana. How long will they have it? Is Thor paying the loan payment? Are they going to extend my warrantee? Are they going to extend the Ford warrantee ?

Maybe these questions should be asked.......

I use a Weber Q with 1 lb propane bottles so which side the LPG tank is on isn't an issue for me. I don't boondock, I use my genset when driving down the road in hot weather, so moving the genset to the rear of the coach moves it farther away from where I am when it's running. For me, the round trip to Elkhart will add 2500 miles to my coach. Of course, that is offset by the number of miles my coach hasn't traveled because it's been unusable. Additionally, I average about 5k miles per year. If I keep the coach 10 years an "extra" 2500 miles on top of the 50k I'll put on it won't make a plug nickel's difference in resale value or drivetrain wear. They have assured my I'll have my coach back by Labor Day weekend, which seems reasonable given the travel time. Also, with the slide and kitchen on the drivers' side, and with a greater percentage of axle GAWR on the front axle, moving the heavier accessory (genset) to the passenger rear will contribute to an overall better balanced rig. I have asked, and received satisfactory answers, to the questions it was relevant for me to ask. I'm also putting considerable stock in this thread http://www.irv2.com/forums/f121/warr...or-167834.html where owners unanimously report positive experiences with having their coaches worked on at the factory. Yes, I'm taking some risk by being the guinea pig, but that's balanced against the undeniable fact that my rig is currently gathering dust for a second summer because it's not usable in hot weather. No owners of 2014's have reported Code 36 genset failures, so the evidence indicates that moving the genset to the rear of the coach cures the issue we're all having. YMMV

[Moonshine94]

Originally Posted by DegoRed

Hate to say it, but im not good with moving the generator to the where the propane tank is located and vise versa. That propane tank has no business anywhere near that much heat. You think you have problems now, just wait till that propane tank starts venting, which will happen with that kind of heat exposure.

Dego,

I was concerned about potential safety issues from having the LPG tank moved to the current genset location, so I tried to do some research on maximum recommended storage temps for propane tanks. I was unable to locate anything definitive. If you know of something I'd certainly be interested. What I do know is that I keep the outdoor temp sensor for an indoor/outdoor thermometer in the battery/hydraulic bay (equally close to the coach engine). When going down the road that bay regularly runs in the upper 120's, but has never exceeded 130 degrees. I also know that many folks around Texas have 500 gallon LPG tanks in their yard, in full sunlight all day. I found a few of those and checked them with an infrared thermometer on a 103 degree day. I didn't find any with a skin temp over 155 degrees, and owners don't report them venting in hot weather. So, without the additional heat source of the genset I can't imagine the surface of the LPG tank going over 140 in the new location. Worst case, it does vent into the unconfined space under the skirt of the coach. Let's say I'm sitting in traffic, no airflow because I'm not moving, but coach engine is running. The closest possible ignition source is the reefer burner, 15ish feet aft, 6 feet higher, and outside the skirt. I'm hard pressed to see it igniting whatever propane gas vented. So, I'm certainly open to additional info, but at present I'm not seeing this as a significant safety issue.

Condolences on the loss of your father.

[Randog]

Originally Posted by Moonshine94

I use a Weber Q with 1 lb propane bottles so which side the LPG tank is on isn't an issue for me. I don't boondock, I use my genset when driving down the road in hot weather, so moving the genset to the rear of the coach moves it farther away from where I am when it's running. For me, the round trip to Elkhart will add 2500 miles to my coach. Of course, that is offset by the number of miles my coach hasn't traveled because it's been unusable. Additionally, I average about 5k miles per year. If I keep the coach 10 years an "extra" 2500 miles on top of the 50k I'll put on it won't make a plug nickel's difference in resale value or drivetrain wear. They have assured my I'll have my coach back by Labor Day weekend, which seems reasonable given the travel time. Also, with the slide and kitchen on the drivers' side, and with a greater percentage of axle GAWR on the front axle, moving the heavier accessory (genset) to the passenger rear will contribute to an overall better balanced rig. I have asked, and received satisfactory answers, to the questions it was relevant for me to ask. I'm also putting considerable stock in this thread http://www.irv2.com/forums/f121/warr...or-167834.html where owners unanimously report positive experiences with having their coaches worked on at the factory. Yes, I'm taking some risk by being the guinea pig, but that's balanced against the undeniable fact that my rig is currently gathering dust for a second summer because it's not usable in hot weather. No owners of 2014's have reported Code 36 genset failures, so the evidence indicates that moving the genset to the rear of the coach cures the issue we're all having. YMMV

Hope it works out for you. But take a moment and try and think of a vehicle where the gas tank is located at the same end of the vehicle as the engine. There isn't one. I wonder why?

[Moonshine94]

Originally Posted by Randog

But take a moment and try and think of a vehicle where the gas tank is located at the same end of the vehicle as the engine. There isn't one. I wonder why?

Well, let's see, every boat and motorcycle I've ever owned had the fuel tank at the same end of the vehicle as the engine, so I guess I'm not seeing your point. Are you suggesting that it's unsafe to have the genset located on the same end of the coach as the fuel tank?

[DegoRed]

I am no propane expert, however I did have to sit through hours upon hours upon days upon days of expert witness, metallurgist, structural engineers, valve designers and manufactures, tank manufactures, gas experts, etc. So here is what I do know.

Propane tanks can handle heat fairly well, they can also handle collisions very well. The problem comes with the gas. When propane tanks/gas get heated, they vent the propane to relieve the pressure inside the tank. This is normal and how they are designed to function. However, when a propane tank vents propane, propane gas does not dissipate very well, it is a heavy gas that does not rise, it actually sits in place or sinks.

It takes very little to ignite propane, heat, static electricity, sparks, etc. Once the gas ignites, it is very explosive, it expands very rapidly.

My worry with this configuration is that the high heat in this location will cause the propane tank to vent often, where it is located currently, there is very little heat to cause the tank to vent. In the generator location, this will not be the case. Once the tank vents, its a gamble each time what the outcome will be.

In the case of my fathers accident, the tank was venting due to heat (sitting in Northern California sun), as it was designed to do so. The truck was parked, not running. When my father touched the tailgate, the theory is that static electricity ignited the gas, the rapidly expanding gas super heating the 2 tanks, causing one of them to explode.

Upon doing all the investigations, we discovered this chain of events happens more often than we all know. No way would I ever want to expose any one to this if avoidable. Putting the propane tank in the generator location is not smart and a potential accident waiting to happen. Picture the heat from a long trip, or sitting in a heavy traffic, your tank decides to vent as it is designed to do, it will not take much to have a fire ball below the driver. The headers, exhaust pipe, transmission, etc. are all very close, guaranteed that exhaust pipe/headers will be hot enough to hit the flash point of the gas.

IF Mark Stanley is behind this fix, which I believe he is, no way has he thought this through. No way would I want to put anyone's safety and well being in his hands.

[Randog]

Originally Posted by Moonshine94

Well, let's see, every boat and motorcycle I've ever owned had the fuel tank at the same end of the vehicle as the engine, so.....

Ok that may have not been the best worded analogy, but did you see DegoRed's photos? That propane is nasty stuff and putting it next to that V10 which we already know is causing heat problems lend me to believe your advocating adding more fuel to the fire as it where.

Not for me, thanks!

[garyswann]

We had one 7gallon tank on a TT vent while we were camping. Propane has a lot of energy and does not rise like most gasses. I wonder if the newer tank valves that only allow you to fill to 80 percent was to eliminate most venting.
I had a huge truck camper years ago that had a steel compartment with two 5 gal tanks in it.I kept smelling propane everywhere in the camper so I bought two new tanks. I still smelled it so I checked all the piping. No leaks. One day while I was switching the regulator from one tank to the other I noticed the rubber hose going through the wall had a pinhole leak in it. All the camper walls were filling with propane and venting out the electrical plug ins.
I hope your manufacturer stands behind its product and finds a safe solution. Wouldn't it be nice if consumer reports evaluated RVs?

[sscarp]

Thor was supposed to pick up my RV today to take to Elkhart and relocate the gen. Guess what? They didn't show.

[Moonshine94]

Originally Posted by sscarp

Thor was supposed to pick up my RV today to take to Elkhart and relocate the gen. Guess what? They didn't show.

The transport company, who was supposed to give me advance notice of pick up, just called me. They are here, at my work, 30 miles from where my coach is, trying to make the pick up. Um, hang on, let me check, no I didn't happen to put my bus in my hip pocket when I came to work today, so I guess you'll just have to chill out until I get off work and then pick up the bus at the address you were given. Geez, maybe they were looking for yours.