ACE Generator Stops running - CODE 36

[Thorchini]

My push pump works really well. I put it to the test this weeekend, it was hot, like Africa hot. I was running down the road with the pump off, and the Genny died after about 1 hour, I could not keep it running. I switched the pump on, and it fired right off and did not stop. I tried this a couple times, and it would not stay running in the heat without the new push pump. The push pump works every time!!

I put my switch on the dash for the pump. It has a little light so I can see it when it is on. sweet.

[jtseltmann]

Is the 'push pump' different that just a new fuel pump? What happens if that is left on when the ten is shut off? Will that cause an issue? Is that a hassle?

[Arizona Lizards]

Originally Posted by jtseltmann

Is the 'push pump' different that just a new fuel pump? What happens if that is left on when the ten is shut off? Will that cause an issue? Is that a hassle?

Our push pump was installed without a switch, it works whenever we turn in the gen set on. Worked like a champ in AZ and CA last summer.

[Redridge]

Its to bad Thor didn't take the time to develop this ongoing issue and opted to move the generator instead. One of the things we loved about the ACE was the overall layout... to bad the front genny is gone on the newer models cause it would of been way cheaper for Thor to just install a pump...

[sanfordturbo]

Finally got around to installing the push pump this weekend. I wanted full control over the pump, so I installed a switch on the black control panel outside the bathroom. The LED switch I installed fits nicely below the generator starter button.

I was able to run the generator for 3 hours yesterday without the push pump, so it is nice to have the flow unrestricted when the pump is off.

I intend to only use the push pump when absolutely necessary. I am headed to the Florida coast and hope to get into a situation where the generator shuts off due to high heat. Then I'll flip on the push pump and see it if "solves" the problem.

Wish me luck.

[sanfordturbo]

Originally Posted by Thorchini

My push pump works really well. I put it to the test this weeekend, it was hot, like Africa hot. I was running down the road with the pump off, and the Genny died after about 1 hour, I could not keep it running. I switched the pump on, and it fired right off and did not stop. I tried this a couple times, and it would not stay running in the heat without the new push pump. The push pump works every time!!

I put my switch on the dash for the pump. It has a little light so I can see it when it is on. sweet.

Same type of switch I just installed. Your experience with the push pump is exactly what I hope to repeat!

[Towertime]

Originally Posted by sanfordturbo

Finally got around to installing the push pump this weekend. I wanted full control over the pump, so I installed a switch on the black control panel outside the bathroom. The LED switch I installed fits nicely below the generator starter button.

I was able to run the generator for 3 hours yesterday without the push pump, so it is nice to have the flow unrestricted when the pump is off.

I intend to only use the push pump when absolutely necessary. I am headed to the Florida coast and hope to get into a situation where the generator shuts off due to high heat. Then I'll flip on the push pump and see it if "solves" the problem.

Wish me luck.

I installed my push pump this weekend. I spliced into the tan wire at the genset fuel pump to use that for a trigger for the relay. Ran that wire back to near the fuel tank. I spliced into the blue 12v wire on the drivers side of the fuel tank to supply the power for the pump which I mounted above and at the forward end of the tank. The blue wire is the 12v from the bedroom fuse panel that feeds the rear area(15a fuse #4 on my 29.1 ) I used a 5 blade (blower motor) relay to switch the power to the fuel pump when the genset is on. It runs when the genset is being primed or is running. It seems to work great and I will try it out on a trip to Florida next week.....the same trip my genset shut down on previously. My generator also seems to start much more easily since I added the push pump.

[Thorchini]

Originally Posted by Redridge

Its to bad Thor didn't take the time to develop this ongoing issue and opted to move the generator instead. One of the things we loved about the ACE was the overall layout... to bad the front genny is gone on the newer models cause it would of been way cheaper for Thor to just install a pump...

It's really short sided thinking. They don't think about the people and the life cycle of their product, many of us will be buying one to two more coaches in our lifetime. Would I buy a Thor again, no. If they showed they were interested in fixing the problem, and other issues, yes. I'm already starting to think about that "next coach". The reason for us buying this one was the price point, we could really find out if we were RV people without blowing a lot of cash. We really like it for what it is and what we use it for today. Now that I think the family is hooked on RVing and camping, and he kids are getting bigger, we will know exactly what we want and I'll spend the money to get the right next rig.

It's like a boat I bought back in 2000 from Bryant Boats in Tennessee, I started to have stress crack issues in the inside bow seating area. They paid me to get it fixed, no questions asked. The stress cracks came back, and they wanted to know more because it was happening to other boats also. They engineered the fix, fixed the cracks again and made me feel like I was part of the solution, what a great experience with a great company. It was a little 19' boat, why should they care? Well, since then I have bought three more boats from them, 21', 23, and 27', and many of my family and friends have bought from them, all having the same experience with the company. Much of this from hearing me me sharing my experiences with the company.

Do you think anyone would want to buy a Thor if they talked to me today?? Could I disrupt a potential sale by talking about my issues with the product and the company? As a company owner or shareholder, I don't think I would want that, and would want to correct that starting with a look at my management in place. Is Thor turning a profit? If they changed their management ways and other things, what could be the potential up side? Could they gain 20% market share by getting return business? Has anyone in Thor's management gone to a good business school... or is it just the good old boys network?

All good questions, makes you think.

[94-Newmar]

Adding another pump upstream is a hack. Does it work? Yes. How long will it work?

Please remember that the actual problem is the generator's inability to cool itself properly due to it's mounting location. The heat being created inside the housing is high enough to raise the gasoline well beyond it's boiling point, vaporizes and then eventually you have a vapor lock and the genset shuts off due to fuel starvation.

Adding another pump upstream certainly helps to prevent this - but what about all that heat on the other components in the generator? These things were not designed to run in the +250° range. Seals, rubber parts, circuit board, buttons, switches, wiring in the stator all are being slowly destroyed by running at those temps.

It's just something to keep in mind as these "age".....

[sanfordturbo]

Originally Posted by 94-Newmar

Adding another pump upstream is a hack. Does it work? Yes. How long will it work?

Please remember that the actual problem is the generator's inability to cool itself properly due to it's mounting location. The heat being created inside the housing is high enough to raise the gasoline well beyond it's boiling point, vaporizes and then eventually you have a vapor lock and the genset shuts off due to fuel starvation.

Adding another pump upstream certainly helps to prevent this - but what about all that heat on the other components in the generator? These things were not designed to run in the +250° range. Seals, rubber parts, circuit board, buttons, switches, wiring in the stator all are being slowly destroyed by running at those temps.

It's just something to keep in mind as these "age".....

Valid points. It was obvious to me that heat was an issue when the door panel started to bubble out.

This is the third mod I have done to try and resolve the issue. Sine i modified the door to let heat out and cool air in, and heat wrapped the generator (and sound barrier), the problem has not been as frequent. This pump should be the final nail in the coffin.

I firmly believe the vented door is needed in conjunction with the pump. Time will tell.

[jtseltmann]

My dealer installed a 6' heat shield mounted to the frame..after they replaced the original fuel pump. We then tested and ran the gen for hours in 95 deg NC heat...no shut off. We never installed the 2nd pump because it seems to have helped. Mind you my Genny is in the 2nd bay behind the drive...2014 30.1

I'm keeping my fingers crossed...

[Don and Dale]

My frustration comes in play when this very post started over 2 years ago, and after 753 posts, I see nothing that Thor has agreed to for everyone. I say this because when I contacted Thor (less than a month ago), their response was/is "you need to contact Onan". REALLY?
True, Thor may have recommended heat shields, Thor may have recommended vented doors, Thor may have recommended push pumps, but ALL OF THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS were to individuals and not to Thor owners as a whole. This is a Thor problem and not an Onan problem. I bought a Thor ACE 29.2, not an Onan generator..it just happens to be a part of the THOR package.

[Randog]

Originally Posted by 94-Newmar

Adding another pump upstream is a hack. Does it work? Yes. How long will it work?

Please remember that the actual problem is the generator's inability to cool itself properly due to it's mounting location. The heat being created inside the housing is high enough to raise the gasoline well beyond it's boiling point, vaporizes and then eventually you have a vapor lock and the genset shuts off due to fuel starvation.

Adding another pump upstream certainly helps to prevent this - but what about all that heat on the other components in the generator? These things were not designed to run in the +250° range. Seals, rubber parts, circuit board, buttons, switches, wiring in the stator all are being slowly destroyed by running at those temps.

It's just something to keep in mind as these "age".....

Not true; many other RVs and or different manufactures have the Gen set located in the same location without issue. Why does the ACE have a problem other than the crappy customer service? Its because the fuel line is too long for a mechanical pump to "suck" the fuel from the fuel tank in the rear. Its almost 25ft long! back in the 80s auto manufactures started having problems with fuel delivery on the new injected motors. They needed a more reliable delivery because of all the disrupted fuel supply because (mostly) of vapor lock. They corrected this by installing electric push pumps in the rear near the fuel tank. At first the pumps were external and now in all the modern vehicles have the fuel pump located in the tank. Go look at your V10 itself; the fuel pump is located in the tank and pushes the fuel to the front. The fuel line runs exactly on the frame as does the fuel line for the Gen Set, why doesn't the V10 get vapor lock? Because of the positive delivery of the fuel. Back in the 80s did the auto manufactures move the motors to the rear near the fuel tank? No; why should we do that now on our MHs? That's stupid!

Somewhere back in this thread last year I was having the same issues. I installed a push pump with a relay connected to the power supply of the gen set pump, heat shielding, relocated the fuel line to the out side of the frame and installed a vented door, all I might add, Thor paid me directly to do, including labor, I haven't had one problem since! Its actually easy to do, cost less than $500 (includes the door) in materials and takes about a day to do. You can do it.

Don't let Thor hack up your coach by moving the Gen Set!
That's stupid!

Good luck!

[94-Newmar]

Originally Posted by Randog

Not true; many other RVs and or different manufactures have the Gen set located in the same location without issue. Why does the ACE have a problem other than the crappy customer service?

Because of it's close quarters and location at the coach - when driving down the road there is a huge negative pressure at or near the generator cooling inlet area - it simply cannot draw in enough air, thus it boils the fuel in carb bowl and shuts down on a 36 code. Additionally, there are numerous others whom have posted about the compartment door finish actually bubbling and disfigured due to the excessive heat within the compartment.

Originally Posted by Randog

Its because the fuel line is too long for a mechanical pump to "suck" the fuel from the fuel tank in the rear. Its almost 25ft long!

If that were true then the unit would never even start to begin with.

Originally Posted by Randog

Go look at your V10 itself; the fuel pump is located in the tank and pushes the fuel to the front. The fuel line runs exactly on the frame as does the fuel line for the Gen Set, why doesn't the V10 get vapor lock? Because of the positive delivery of the fuel.

No. You're referring to fuel injection. These gensets are carbueted... huge difference. This model genset can function just fine under full load with as little as 3psi of pressure. Fuel injection generally requires much higher psi ranges, generally over 50psi. Additionally, With fuel Injection there is a constant flow of fuel from the injection pump back to the fuel tank running in a constant loop. Only fuel that the injection pump requires based upon demand is sent immediately to the intake system or cylinder depending upon the type of fuel injection. The rest of the fuel is sent back to the tank - therefore it constantly moves and is not being "stored" in the engine compartment as in a carbureted model such as the model of generator that is being discussed here which has a fuel bowl. With fuel injection, not only is it not stored up front to get hot, it's constantly on the move so it would hardly ever get hot enough to vaporize as in the case of these carbureted units.

Originally Posted by Randog

Somewhere back in this thread last year I was having the same issues. I installed a push pump with a relay connected to the power supply of the gen set pump, heat shielding, relocated the fuel line to the out side of the frame and installed a vented door, all I might add, Thor paid me directly to do, including labor, I haven't had one problem since!

It's only been a year and I doubt you have that many runtime hours on it. This is going to creep up and bite everyone in the butt due to these units running so hot. Remember, these are air cooled, not liquid cooled and there are absolutely no safety devices, sensors or monitors pertaining to heat inside these units. They will continue to run regardless if they're running at 180° or 350°+