ACE Generator Stops running - CODE 36

[94-Newmar]

Originally Posted by Redridge

Its to bad Thor didn't take the time to develop this ongoing issue and opted to move the generator instead. One of the things we loved about the ACE was the overall layout... to bad the front genny is gone on the newer models cause it would of been way cheaper for Thor to just install a pump...

They moved it to due to the heat and it's inability to properly ventilate itself in it's current position. Many of these units have been temp monitored running at over 300 degrees which is bad bad bad bad for every moving part, rubber seal, gasket, wire, etc etc.

If the fix was as simple as installing a new pump then they would have done it. As mentioned in my other thread.. adding an additional fuel pump is nothing more than a band-aid and these units running that hot will suffer an early death over a properly ventilated unit.

Moving it back just 1 compartment is the difference between night and day in it's ability to breathe properly AND will allow it to live for decades.

Fleetwood has been thru this very same thing with certain Bounder Classic Models. Their initial response was to convert the carbureted Cummins/Onan 5500 HGJAB models to fuel injected to keep any stored fuel such as in the carb bowl outside the unit and constantly on the move in constant recirculation cycle so it wouldn't boil and vapor lock. This made the units run just fine.. no more error 36 shutdowns. HOWEVER units began to suffer catastrophic failures related due to heat. They have since decided to move problematic units gensets to the next compartment back.

[Randog]

Originally Posted by 94-Newmar

Because of it's close quarters and location at the coach - when driving down the road there is a huge negative pressure at or near the generator cooling inlet area - it simply cannot draw in enough air, thus it boils the fuel in carb bowl and shuts down on a 36 code. Additionally, there are numerous others whom have posted about the compartment door finish actually bubbling and disfigured due to the excessive heat within the compartment.

So you missed the part where I solved this with a vented door?

If that were true then the unit would never even start to begin with.

No. You're referring to fuel injection. These gensets are carbueted... huge difference. This model genset can function just fine under full load with as little as 3psi of pressure. Fuel injection generally requires much higher psi ranges, generally over 50psi. Additionally, With fuel Injection there is a constant flow of fuel from the injection pump back to the fuel tank running in a constant loop. Only fuel that the injection pump requires based upon demand is sent immediately to the intake system or cylinder depending upon the type of fuel injection. The rest of the fuel is sent back to the tank - therefore it constantly moves and is not being "stored" in the engine compartment as in a carbureted model such as the model of generator that is being discussed here which has a fuel bowl. With fuel injection, not only is it not stored up front to get hot, it's constantly on the move so it would hardly ever get hot enough to vaporize as in the case of these carbureted units.

I realize the difference between FI and carbureted. The way a carburetor works and you might look this up on Google, is the float bowl holds enough fuel to start the engine and get the mechanical pump sucking the fuel from the rear to the engine and creating flow by siphon. Working on the same principles as when you siphon gas out of a car with a rubber hose. The Float bowl on the generator is so small that when there are disruptions in the delivery pressure due to vapor lock breaking the siphon and causing the generator to shut down. The generator will not start back up because their is no fuel in the float bowl. On the other hand, FI doesn't have a float bowl and thus doesn't have "reserve" supply of fuel other than the constant delivery pressure by the pump. This is why on modern vehicles the mechanical pump went away when carburetors went away. Visualize the generator carburetor as FI of sorts in the manner that it needs a constant supply of fuel then a push pump make since and works. Our or rather Thor's problem is they should of sprung for a better gen-set with FI and none of this would matter.

It's only been a year and I doubt you have that many runtime hours on it. This is going to creep up and bite everyone in the butt due to these units running so hot. Remember, these are air cooled, not liquid cooled and there are absolutely no safety devices, sensors or monitors pertaining to heat inside these units. They will continue to run regardless if they're running at 180° or 350°+

You don't now how may times I've run my generator in the desert heat of over 100 degrees while driving after this repair with out issues. Its funny you talk about air flow over a an air cooled engine, what doesn't make since about your hypotheses is that no one as complained about the generator shutting down when coach is parked the issue s only when the coach is moving. So riddle me this; why doesn't the generator shut down when there is no air flow? Its not an air flow problem its a fuel delivery problem plain and simple.

[94-Newmar]

Re-read my previous post.. I did indeed say that this is a problem while driving only. The only difference between sitting and driving is the airflow available to the housing that the genset sits within - the fuel pressure and/or flow doesn't change simply because you're moving.. lol. Look at how much money they could have saved if they just installed an additional fuel pump..right? But guess what? They didn't. Why? Because that isn't the problem. Yes it makes your genset run when it gets hot unfortunately it's baking itself to an early death. Those that understand airflow dynamics will understand what's going on with the negative pressure pocket at the genset's currently installed location.

[Moonshine94]

Sounds like an argument over whether the sun is bright or hot. Well, it's both. And in this case the fuel starvation is the end result of a combination of excessive heat and inadequate airflow. In an aircooled engine the two are linked. As Randog noted the genset runs fine when the coach is parked, indicating that there is adequate airflow to keep the genset (and the incoming fuel) within design parameters. As 94-Newmar pointed out, when the coach is moving down the road in high ambient temps there are three heat sources; the genset, the chassis engine, and the radiant heat from the pavement. And in that situation there is inadequate airflow to deal with the heat generated from all three sources.

For those who have installed a push pump and are pleased with the results, I'm happy for you. As for me, I elected to go with the Thor recommended genset relocation, and I can now say that I'm pleased with the results. The relocation improved my overall weight distribution, both F/R and R/L. The noise level inside the coach with the genset running is much better. Originally, with the genset located essentially under my butt I could hear it running over the engine and road noise. Now, with the genset at the rear of the coach I can't even hear it running. Mind you, I don't try to sleep with the genset running. I didn't lose one inch of storage space, nor did I lose any access to my mega storage. Most importantly, we just returned from our annual June trip to the Ouachita Mountains, a trip that my genset never successfully completed before. This year, for the first time since we bought the ACE, the genny ran perfectly for the entire trip. I'm sold, and I think it was well worth sending my ACE back to Elkhart to have the relocation performed.

[Towertime]

I drove about six hours Sunday (almost 400 miles) through Georgia and North Florida with the genset on the whole time. Outside temps were about 95 or so. The temp in the Info center on the dash said 103. It ran perfectly. On the same trip two years ago, it only made it about half way before shutting down. The push pump absolutely does the job. There is no evidence on my generator compartment door of overheating. The passengers sure appreciated the cool air in the RV.

[jtseltmann]

I don't want to jinx it but my gen seems to be fixed. No second pump added...but they did replace the first pump. CW added a 6' heat shield that runs down the frame...so far in the 90+ temps the gen runs and has not stopped unexpectedly. I say that by knocking, throwing salt over my shoulder and poking myself in the eye...but there I said it. I'm very happy. I ran it while sitting in a parking lot of asphalt in 85+ heat..yest....a/c blasting...and no problems. So far so good. It seems like everyone is having a different solution.

[sanfordturbo]

Back from my beach vacation in the gulf. Driver Information Center indicated 105 degrees sitting in AL / FL traffic. A local bank time/temp sign on the side of the road confirmed it.

Push pump worked perfectly. The generator never shut off the entire trip down there and back in 98+ temps.

I wish the 13,500 BTU AC unit could keep up. Time for a 15,000 BTU up front and relocate the 13,500 BTU to the bedroom.

[Glock17]

For Sure Sanford, the stock AC unit does not have enough ass to cool the entire coach very well on hot days. If you don't start it soon enough, seem like it can take forever to catch up. Sometimes you have to wail till darkness for the whole thing to cool off.

We got our A/C worked on due the the breaker flipping (end of bed).. The guy used some A/C tape and taped up the air inlet. He said it the unit was freezing up, this seemed to help significantly on 110v

Got me to wondering could the A/C freezing up have anything to do with killing the Genset? (unexpectedly)

[Towertime]

Mine came with the 15,000k unit. It does pretty well while driving(as long as the generator is running). The push pump seems to have resolved that for me. If you are parked somewhere with no shade, the front windows are a huge source of heat. I got a Magna Shade to use while parked and it really helped out last week in the Florida heat.

[Harlee79]

My 15000 A/C unit also does very well keeping up as long as the gennie runs also.

[Towertime]

Originally Posted by jtseltmann

I ran it while sitting in a parking lot of asphalt in 85+ heat..yest....a/c blasting...and no problems. So far so good. It seems like everyone is having a different solution.

Most of the issues that have been reported on this post have not been while parked unless it was after the coach had been driven for at least a few hours. Mine ran for 8 hours at the local Cummings service parking lot but still shut down on I-95 after about 3 hours in the hot summer at 95+. I hope yours is good but don't think that running in a parking lot at 85+ proves it.

[IdahoSRT10]

I'm having the same shut down issues with my 2014 Fleetwood Storm with the Onan 4000. (runs fine if I leave the gen door open.)

[Glock17]

Originally Posted by Thorchini

Do you think anyone would want to buy a Thor if they talked to me today?? Could I disrupt a potential sale by talking about my issues with the product and the company? As a company owner or shareholder, I don't think I would want that, and would want to correct that starting with a look at my management in place. Is Thor turning a profit? If they changed their management ways and other things, what could be the potential up side? Could they gain 20% market share by getting return business? Has anyone in Thor's management gone to a good business school... or is it just the good old boys network?

All good questions, makes you think.

We're done. Due to all the problems we have had, and we continue to have ... Yesterday we traded our 2013 Thor ACE EVO 30.1 in on a 2007 Holiday Rambler. I believe this Holiday unit to be pre-disastered and anticipate less problems going forward than we would have had if we had stayed with the ACE.

We bought this 2013 ACE thinking it would probably be our last. We bought a new one because we expected LESS trouble. We got the beautiful Blue paint job.. Our optimism was high, and we loved our new coach. But over time our feeling of love for our coach had turned to contempt. What is going to break next? And of course took a bit of a Bath regarding money for buying a new unit.

All we could see in the future was probably more pointing of fingers between Camping World, Onan and Thor. Nobody wanted to take responsibility 'ownership' for this issue. We also had the water drips on the dashboard after a cold night issue and we were trying to get the Genset fixed before taking that problem on. We are also way underimpressed with the AC unit on hot days....

With most of you here claiming continuing failure and having to resort to fixing it yourself with additional pumps/insulation/doors what have you, that seems to be the only way around this Code 36 problem. I have MS, crawling up under the coach and pulling on Gasoline Lines, installing pumps and 12 v power doesn't really work for me.

As more folks continue to throw up their hands ...We began to wonder what would happen to these older ACEs. The prices on the 2015s are less than the 2013s were when new. We all know coaches depreciate when we buy them, but I wanted to sell mine before what I anticipate might be a bigger influx of used ACES. One dealer already declined to take our Thor as a trade in.

All this, and we even have a sister in Elkhart County, IN who would/could have taken this to court for us.

I don't feel like we were asking too much:

We just want the $hit to work

We'll be around iRV2 but over on the Holiday Rambler section instead.

Best Regards
=Greg n Saga

Comments about rats from a sinking ship would probably be appropriate....

[millwind]

Originally Posted by Glock17

We're done. Due to all the problems we have had, and we continue to have ... Yesterday we traded our 2013 Thor ACE EVO 30.1 in on a 2007 Holiday Rambler. I believe this Holiday unit to be pre-disastered and anticipate less problems going forward than we would have had if we had stayed with the ACE.


I don't feel like we were asking too much:

We just want the $hit to work

We'll be around iRV2 but over on the Holiday Rambler section instead.

Best Regards
=Greg n Saga

Comments about rats from a sinking ship would probably be appropriate....

Oh, on the contrary, IMO you should be congratulated.
Sometimes you just have to know when to fold 'em and cut your losses.
Many of us are getting a bit long in the tooth & wasting time on fix-ups is a zero sum game.

Good going in the heads-up too! It's a BLUE ACE.

Wish you the best with your HR