OUTLAW Mods and Easy Fixes

[DGShaffer]

Originally Posted by Mike Bachman

An extension or a cable lock sounds good to me. When you had to remove it from the 30a box, was surge protector broken or just gremlin at work?

I can't explain what was going on but when I hooked it in line all the voltages and hertz looked fine. Then I plugged into the surge protector and the transfer switch flipped like normal. I went inside and noticed the microwave was off so I went back out to check everything and it was back on again. I watched it for a bit and sure enough it cut off again, then back on. All the time the surge suppressor readings were showing normal so I pulled it out and connected right to the post and never had another problem.

I'm guessing that the suppressor might have been limiting the voltage to a fine point between enough and not enough voltage. I've never experienced that since. I bought the extension after being at a sight where I barely had enough cable to reach the box and didn't want to be in a position where I couldn't plug in. I keep the suppressor plugged into the hard wired lead and that lets me deal with the 32 foot 50 amp extension cable on it's own rather that wrestling the hard wired one back into the compartment. It's a lot easier and the suppressor sits hidden out of sight.

[sizzler]

Originally Posted by JeffAZ

Great, this is so me. I need new house batteries, researched alot (I thought), and finally ordered two new Lifeline AGM batteries yesterday. So now today I'm casually surfing the forums and now I'm seeing stuff about how the AGM batteries are charged differently from the flooded ones? Does anybody have any info on this, can I adjust my stock charger or do I need a new one? Sometimes I hate being a newbie! Thanks.

Jeff, just to be certain, did you purchase 6volt AGM to replace your 6volt flooded batteries, or 12volt AGM. Just mentioning because you did not state the voltage which is the only thing you need to worry about. You can use 12volt but they need to be connected differently. I have had quite large battery banks of various batteries types though out my various haulers. They all work the same and charge the same, just different maintenance is required. Most of the talk out there is confusing, but really it comes down to how you use your batteries. You don't want to discharge below 40%. How do you know if you are 40% discharged? 40% equals a voltage reading of 11.9 volts. If you practice this, your batteries will last twice as long as discharging them to 20%.

If you learn the amp hours of your battery bank and the draw you normally will place on them, you will have an easier time managing the discharge and charge. I would say that is the biggest factor in keeping your batteries healthy. The suggestions for storing the batteries and using a 4 stage charger such as Battery Minder are also important to making the batteries last a long time. I have had battery banks last 4 year. I have also had battery banks last only a year, because the bank was too small for my needs, and I often discharged the bank too much.

Note: 12volt verse 6volt, if you did change to 12volt batteries you will not have longer power (amp hours). If fact it is said that two 6volt batteries are better than two 12volt batteries. I myself found you can discharge a 6volt battery a little more than a 12volt bank. More storage or amp hours comes from the physical size of the battery. The more plates it has in it, the more storage or amp hours it has. Of course the best way to get more storage is to add more batteries. It is better not to add brand new batteries to a bank of old batteries, as you want the batteries to accept charge at the same rate.

Not that I am rambling and making this subject sound complicated, I will leave it at that. If you have questions, please feel free to ask.

[JeffAZ]

Thanks for the responses Scott, Steve, and Sizzler. Yes I stayed with 6v batteries. I looked at Prog Dyn's website and saw nothing specific about AGM batteries, so I called them and spoke to Aaron Technician and he said the PD9280 charger/converter and Charge Wizard will be compatible with no changes required.

I keep my rig at home, so I can plug it in, so long term storage of the batteries isn't a concern to me. We've been using it once or twice a month for mostly short weekend trips.

[Scarab0088]

Originally Posted by JeffAZ

Thanks for the responses Scott, Steve, and Sizzler. Yes I stayed with 6v batteries. I looked at Prog Dyn's website and saw nothing specific about AGM batteries, so I called them and spoke to Aaron Technician and he said the PD9280 charger/converter and Charge Wizard will be compatible with no changes required.

I keep my rig at home, so I can plug it in, so long term storage of the batteries isn't a concern to me. We've been using it once or twice a month for mostly short weekend trips.

Jeff...just a reminder (discussed here and on other threads)...the 3 Stage Converter/Charger standard in the Outlaw IS NOT a float charger.

If you plug-in the RV while stored, the lowest level charge (trickle charge) is not good for the house batteries.
Here's a simple article about the difference:
How Does A Float Charger Work?



IMHO, a float charger - optimized for AGM batteries - is well worth the price to keep your batteries at peak performance.

Safe travels

[JeffAZ]

Can the float charger be solar powered?

[Scarab0088]

Originally Posted by JeffAZ

Can the float charger be solar powered?

Yes...if the solar panel has the right circuitry in the controller...The panel will say it has a "float" mode or similar term in the specs.

But, a solar panel set-up for AGM's(?)...I have no idea about where to get one of those

Best luck

[focker]

When I am plugged in at home (I park mine at the house too) I keep my house batteries disconnected and the breaker for the inverter off. I just use my Battery Minder on the house batteries once every 2-4 weeks for 48 hours and they are always (so far) in top shape. When I was leaving the batteries connected and letting the 9280 do the charging I was getting more off gassing and water coming out of the batteries with fair amounts of corrosion occurring.

[sizzler]

Originally Posted by JeffAZ

Thanks for the responses Scott, Steve, and Sizzler. Yes I stayed with 6v batteries. I looked at Prog Dyn's website and saw nothing specific about AGM batteries, so I called them and spoke to Aaron Technician and he said the PD9280 charger/converter and Charge Wizard will be compatible with no changes required.

I keep my rig at home, so I can plug it in, so long term storage of the batteries isn't a concern to me. We've been using it once or twice a month for mostly short weekend trips.

The Charge Wizard is really good. I have had it in my last two haulers. It is a 4 stage charger. The Wizard will automatically manage your batteries when on shore power or genie. The great thing is when you need a charge the quick charge stage will bring your batteries up to 75% fairly quick. The 4th stage is the float charge Steve is speaking of where when your unit is on shore power with no load the 4th stage every 21 hours when the system is operating in the Storage Mode, the Charge Wizard will automatically switch to the Desulfation Mode of operation. Sulfation is what destroys the plates in your batteries. It is almost care free. Nice choice!

[sizzler]

Originally Posted by JeffAZ

Can the float charger be solar powered?

The float charger doesn't have anything to do with the source of power, but rather the charge/inverter/converter depending on the system. The controller must have the ability to regulate the DC charge going to the battery. If you have access to shore power most often you really don't require solar power.

I am assuming the PD9280 is the charge/converter currently in your Outlaw. That unit accepts the Charge Wizard Pendant which is the 4 stage controller.

Funny I just bought a new Outlaw and I am not sure what charger/converter it has in it. I only have room for one RV on my property and since I am still selling my Fun Mover, my Outlaw is at a buddies. Is that correct that the Outlaws use the PD9280? I sure hope so, then I will purchase a new Wizard and life will be grand. I believe the Charge Wizard Pendant is $75. You will want to mount it in the house portion of your Outlaw as you can force it through the various stages and you can see by the indicator light at what stage your charger is working.

[Scarab0088]

Hmmmmm, now Sizzler has me wondering.
I always thought the converter/charger in my Outlaw had no float mode
Now, I will have to check to be sure...

...But I can report that the PD9280 is only 3 stage (3 voltage levels) w/ 4 modes. It will trickle charge but there's no "Float" mode advertised...and surely no setting for AGM's:
Intelli-Power PD9280 80A Electronic RV Converter/Charger

And, Scott and I had the PD9280 slowly "cook" the house batteries when left running for long periods of time with no use (i.e. in storage).

So for storage of my Outlaw, the house batteries are disconnected (with the servo disconnect AND a mechanical switch that I added). When the RV will sit over a month, the batteries come home for some float charging on a "Battery Minder" brand float charger.

The chassis battery is on a solar panel that sits on the dash.

If I could park the RV at home, then there would be 2 Battery Minders installed (chassis and house banks) for easy storage hook-up.

I will post more after checking.

Safe travels

[Scarab0088]

For anybody that has been wondering how the washer/dryer install might look like:




Click to enlarge...

From a Craigslist ad for a USED 2014 37LS...that's right, used. Seems the owner bought a boat
**Look** Used 2014 Thor Outlaw 37 Toy Hauler Motorhome **Upgrades**

Safe travels

[sizzler]

Originally Posted by Scarab0088

Hmmmmm, now Sizzler has me wondering.
I always thought the converter/charger in my Outlaw had no float mode
Now, I will have to check to be sure...

...But I can report that the PD9280 is only 3 stage (3 voltage levels) w/ 4 modes. It will trickle charge but there's no "Float" mode advertised...and surely no setting for AGM's:
Intelli-Power PD9280 80A Electronic RV Converter/Charger

And, Scott and I had the PD9280 slowly "cook" the house batteries when left running for long periods of time with no use (i.e. in storage).

So for storage of my Outlaw, the house batteries are disconnected (with the servo disconnect AND a mechanical switch that I added). When the RV will sit over a month, the batteries come home for some float charging on a "Battery Minder" brand float charger.

The chassis battery is on a solar panel that sits on the dash.

If I could park the RV at home, then there would be 2 Battery Minders installed (chassis and house banks) for easy storage hook-up.

I will post more after checking.

Safe travels

Hello Steve,

You are correct, most RV charges are either single stage or triple charge. Single only pushes 13.2volts. Very slow charging and constant. Most of the Intelli-Chargers are three stage and constant. Most batteries that come in RVs are flood type but not sealed. You must keep a constant eye on the water levels to ensure you don't burn the batteries. AGMs are the same only sealed. They don't require much in the way of service hence the name AGM (Absorbent Glass Mat). They still will not like a constant store charge of 13.2volts as the plates will end up with sulfication. This is where the float charge comes into play, by bouncing from Store to Desulfication which basically boils the sulfication off the plates. With non-AGMs you must keep an eye on the water. You can disconnect the batteries and leave sit for a couple months then connect again and allow the Charge Wizard to maintain the batteries again.

Back to my point, most of the RVs I know of will not have the Charge Wizard or monitor built in. This is an add on. They call it a micro processor which monitors the battery state to know what charge is required. Here is a quick list of the mods;

The Charge Wizard constantly monitors battery voltage and battery usage then selects one of the following four operating modes to properly charge and maintain the battery.
BOOST Mode 14.4 Volts - Rapidly brings the RV battery up to 90% of full charge.
NORMAL Mode 13.6 Volts - Safely completes the charge.
STORAGE Mode 13.2 Volts - Maintains charge with minimal gassing or water loss.
EQUALIZATION Mode 14.4 Volts - Every 21 hours for a period of 15 minutes prevents battery stratification & sulfation - the leading cause of battery failure.

I have used the Charge Wizard on the last two haulers I have had. Be for that in my Renegades and custom built we had full on solar systems without a genie. The battery banks were 10x 6volt Gel Cell batteries which ran compressors to electric power washers. If we ran low we simply started the engine to either charge or to stop the discharge. These systems were $15k systems and basically did the same as the now very inexpensive charger/converters. On my last three haulers, I did away with the solar panels. We had no need as we never dry camped more than 3 or 4 days.

In short you may need to add the Charge Wizard and later change your batteries to AGMs or Gel cells. Gel cells are expensive but very good batteries. As well the way you have been handling your flooded batteries is also spot on, but given the charger/inverter you have, you may not require the battery minder.

Another thing I want to add is I have had a heck of alot of haulers and non of them have come from the factory laid out as well as the New Outlaw I just purchased. The price point and layout are simply the best. All I could complain about is the head lights. But I always add HIDs so that complain went away pretty quickly. I also want to say that the posts you guys have done here basically did most of my research and helped me enough to buy my Outlaw without even seeing one in person. Thank you to all of you for that!!! I really appreciate what you guys have done here!!

[sizzler]

Steve I meant to mention that I was thinking about going to flood type batteries for my Outlaw because they can handle more abuse than AGM or Gel. You cannot leave AGM or Gel in a non-charged state and the original point you were mentioning, they are sensitive to overcharge. I have been thinking it cheaper to used flood type and maintain them over the accidental over discharge of sealed type. I have done this to my sealed batteries a few times and noticed that they loose capacity with only two accidental discharges. I would like to blame my kids, but it is me not always paying attention. Maybe I should get a system where I can set the discharge level to trigger an inverter shut off? I believe that exists, I just haven't looked very seriously at it. Anyway thought it was worth mentioning.

[Scarab0088]

Sizzler (et al),

The PD9280 has "Charge Wizard" installed from the factory...that's right, the Outlaw is AWESOME!
See: Intelli-Power PD9280 80A Electronic RV Converter/Charger

Scott added the monitor pendant, and that's doesn't add any functions - but does let you manually control the converter/charger's functions exactly as described above.

For AGM's, Battery Minder staff described that Optimizing for AGM's is more than just flipping off, but actually does some type of draw as well as charge and stand-by...more like the de-sulfate mode. I am no electrical engineer, but can say that it works for the Optima's I have.

Concur that the Outlaw is the apex of Toy Hauler's. And, if you want to add anything, it is most often very possible because the way Damon and Thor put it together.

Now...HID's? Please post details about that!

Safe travels