First Issue With MF 10

[Traps90]

Originally Posted by hpykmpr47

Sorry to hear that. How do you find out what code it throws.Your problem sounds so much like the one we are having with our coach.....Alan

Alan in my case I have to stop and put the Transmission into Neutral and with the engine still running go to the keypad on the driver's side. Hit the diagnostic button (engine should be #1) if not scroll up or down till you get engine highlighted on dash. press the enter button and it should give you the codes.

In my case cause there is no problem with the Cam Position Timing as soon as I shut it off the codes disappear.

Mine seems to be one of those electronic gremlins that may be a real pain to find the real cure for it.

I now think that when the engine brake works aggressively on the 4-3 downshift is when it triggers the code.

I will try and get it in next week when we are in the Tucson Area. If not it will have to wait until I get to California in December.

Really hate these types of problems cause they don't always act up for the shops when you take them in and the cure may not be the obvious.

[datrbone8]

It may just be a faulty sensor

[Traps90]

Originally Posted by datrbone8

It may just be a faulty sensor

It could be but that would be the twice in 8,500 miles

[Eaglesview]

Originally Posted by Dupdyke

Sure makes me happy to have one of the older non smart engines, it should only run about 250,000 miles before it dies.. Hope I am one of the lucky ones that makes it that far....

A man whose wisdom is only exceeded by his good luck.

[Dennis_K]

I have been doing some research of the DPF systems and how they work. It appears that if you drive at a constant speed of 45 mph and above, under load to generate heat, for long periods, you will have less need for a Re-gen than if you do other.

Here are a couple of videos on the subject that help explain.
Maxxforce engines:

DPF Regeneration MaxxForce Engines - YouTube

About DPF systems:

Understanding Diesel DPF Regeneration - YouTube

Maybe I am not having problems because I usually run 65mph towing 5000-7000lbs for long periods in warm climates.

Or...I am just lucky so far...

[Traps90]

Thanks for the links Dennis, like you I have never yet had to do a manual regen, and yours seems to be working as should be. But the first video really helps explain how everything works and what to do if one needs to.

[hpykmpr47]

Originally Posted by Traps90

Alan in my case I have to stop and put the Transmission into Neutral and with the engine still running go to the keypad on the driver's side. Hit the diagnostic button (engine should be #1) if not scroll up or down till you get engine highlighted on dash. press the enter button and it should give you the codes.

In my case cause there is no problem with the Cam Position Timing as soon as I shut it off the codes disappear.

Mine seems to be one of those electronic gremlins that may be a real pain to find the real cure for it.

I now think that when the engine brake works aggressively on the 4-3 downshift is when it triggers the code.



I will try and get it in next week when we are in the Tucson Area. If not it will have to wait until I get to California in December.

Really hate these types of problems cause they don't always act up for the shops when you take them in and the cure may not be the obvious.

Got what I hope is good news from Navistar yesterday in the form of a Voluntary Emissions Recall 13516. It sounds like this recall is dealing with the problem we are having with our coach and it sounds like it is a software issue. The reason for the recall is " To prevent possible DPF overload resulting in frequent exhaust system regeneration events" This seems to be the very thing that we have been pestered with all summer . Hopefully this will take care of the problem. I don't know if your coach fall under the guidelines but if so I expect you will get a notice shortly....Alan

[Traps90]

Alan I sure hope that solves our issues. Keep us informed

[Dennis_K]

Originally Posted by hpykmpr47

Got what I hope is good news from Navistar yesterday in the form of a Voluntary Emissions Recall 13516. It sounds like this recall is dealing with the problem we are having with our coach and it sounds like it is a software issue. The reason for the recall is " To prevent possible DPF overload resulting in frequent exhaust system regeneration events" This seems to be the very thing that we have been pestered with all summer . Hopefully this will take care of the problem. I don't know if your coach fall under the guidelines but if so I expect you will get a notice shortly....Alan

I also got the Recall notice. Hopefully it won't create any problems.

To anyone who get the recall preformed, please let the rest of us know how the process went.

[hpykmpr47]

Had the recall done on our coach yesterday. They installed a new upgrade that the tech said he was guite sure would take care of our problem .Time will tell I guess. He said that before the installation they take the tail pipe off and install some kind of block in the exhaust system to cause the DPF to reach very high temps and cook the DPF to make sure it was clean. Hopefully this will be the end of this problem...Alan

[Traps90]

Alan, please let us know how this works for you when you get to properly test it.

Thanks

[gcessac]

On a recent trip in Louisiana with about 6000 miles, I started the motorhome for a trip to Arkansas and after about 10 miles in a small town in La. the dpf lamp started flashing. It had never been on before as a steady glow to indicate a stage one load. Only lights that I have noted was the HEST lamp when stopped at a rest stop, or in stop and go traffic. The flashing dpf lamp indicated that I needed to do a parked regeneration. Was able to do that and the lamp quit flashing after 30 to 40 minutes. The dpf lamp however did not go out. I decided that I would try to drive it at highway speeds 65+ mph to see if it would go out and it finally did after about 30 miles. What was puzzling was that I never in the 4000 miles that I drove it saw a stage one dpf light indication. From that point on to Arkansas everything was fine. From Arkansas to Missouri we drove on highway 65 and had a lot of minor hills. I was driving slow at 55- 60 MPH enjoying the view. At one point, I was looking out the rear view window at the exhaust and noted a substantial cloud of white/blue smoke coming out the exhaust. I thought to myself that this would not work cause I would have the EPA police stopping me. I noticed that it would start smoking on the hills a few seconds before shifting to fifth gear and then quit smoking. I drove the rest of the way to Interstate 70 in fifth gear. On I-70 I drove faster 65-70 in 6 gear and no smoke on the hills. from Missouri to Albuquerque, no problems until I was 10 miles out of Albuquerque. At that point I had the Malfunction indicator lamp started flashing. It flashed for several miles and then quit flashing and I continued home in Albuquerque. I figured I could visit an International dealer on when they could schedule me in. When I got home I had a recall notice on the Maxxforce 10. Dealer said that the Computer changes should fix my problems. Sorry for the length of this reply but it all seems to me to tie together

[hpykmpr47]

Originally Posted by gcessac

On a recent trip in Louisiana with about 6000 miles, I started the motorhome for a trip to Arkansas and after about 10 miles in a small town in La. the dpf lamp started flashing. It had never been on before as a steady glow to indicate a stage one load. Only lights that I have noted was the HEST lamp when stopped at a rest stop, or in stop and go traffic. The flashing dpf lamp indicated that I needed to do a parked regeneration. Was able to do that and the lamp quit flashing after 30 to 40 minutes. The dpf lamp however did not go out. I decided that I would try to drive it at highway speeds 65+ mph to see if it would go out and it finally did after about 30 miles. What was puzzling was that I never in the 4000 miles that I drove it saw a stage one dpf light indication. From that point on to Arkansas everything was fine. From Arkansas to Missouri we drove on highway 65 and had a lot of minor hills. I was driving slow at 55- 60 MPH enjoying the view. At one point, I was looking out the rear view window at the exhaust and noted a substantial cloud of white/blue smoke coming out the exhaust. I thought to myself that this would not work cause I would have the EPA police stopping me. I noticed that it would start smoking on the hills a few seconds before shifting to fifth gear and then quit smoking. I drove the rest of the way to Interstate 70 in fifth gear. On I-70 I drove faster 65-70 in 6 gear and no smoke on the hills. from Missouri to Albuquerque, no problems until I was 10 miles out of Albuquerque. At that point I had the Malfunction indicator lamp started flashing. It flashed for several miles and then quit flashing and I continued home in Albuquerque. I figured I could visit an International dealer on when they could schedule me in. When I got home I had a recall notice on the Maxxforce 10. Dealer said that the Computer changes should fix my problems. Sorry for the length of this reply but it all seems to me to tie together

Your problems seem to mirror the problems we had with our coach over this past summer. We had the recall done the other day and hopefully that will take care of our problems, only time will tell I guess......Alan

[OutAround]

Hello,

I am very familiar w the Maxxforce engines in particular the 10 series. My wife and I have a 2011 Monaco Knight that just turned over 100,000 miles as I was getting home last night and driving through all the nasty rain over Florida coming back from Denver. I also own a contracting company. Maxxforce engines have been my engine of choice for my medium duty road trucks.

I can honestly tell you with several hundred thousands of miles experience with this engine and now 100k in my RV I have never had ANY trouble with any of the engines at all. I have read many of the negative comments online and spoken with other companies who have not had the same experiences.

I can also tell you that in the 100,000 miles on my Knight I have not ever done even one parked regen or had even the first repair made to the engine.

I believe I can explain why the engine can be either the best engine you will ever have or why it can be the worst.

A few notes on this engine to consider:

--This engine due to its regen system is especially sensitive to soot build up in the particulate filters. This build-up is what requires frequent parked regens and runability issues. This engine's design is best suited for highway use and for long trips when operated......not for in town service. (That's why city and school busses and delivery trucks have had absolute misery with this engine)

I am confident the following will "cure" almost all of your problems:

--Never ever idle this engine, even in high idle, any longer than necessary. NEVER IDLE. As soon as proper air pressure is achieved or as soon as a stable oil pressure is achieved in cold climates begin driving the coach. If you stop after driving at high speeds only the briefest idling to cook down the turbos is required. Always less than 3 mins but unless its 100 plus outside and you have been pulling a 10k load up a grade 30 secs is enough.

If you stop somewhere for a few minutes shut off the coach. Don't idle!! It won't hurt the longevity of the engine to restart it.

If you don't use your coach regularly and are in the habit of starting the engine to idle....stop idling it. You must take the coach out and drive it at least 30 mins minimum on a regular basis.

--Always run a fuel additive. I use Howes or Power Clean but the brand is not important. This is especially important in cold weather but my experience is to always run an additive.

--If the temperature is going to be below freezing always plug in and use your 110v engine heater.

--Always run a full synthetic engine oil in this engine. I personally use Rotella T6 but the brand doesn't matter. What matters is that its sythetic. I change my oil based on International recommendations based on fuel economy and that is between 15,000 to 20,000 miles or one year whichever comes first. Don't chnage your oil more often than the book says. I know its counter intuitive but fresh oil has tons of additives and detergents in it that are meant to be heated and used over a period of time. Always short changing your oil is detrimental to the engine, hard on the seals and will lead to leaks as well as wasted money, oil and time. If you are a maintenance freak change your fuel filters instead more often.

--Always replace both primary and secondary fuel filters per the recommended schedule or before. Do not run the fuel filters past the recommendations. IMO the fuel filters are more important than the oil and oil filters in a Diesel engine.

--Always accelerate when possible with your foot on the floor. Give her all she's got captain!!!! This is especially good to do when accelerating on an interstate on ramp. I promise you will not hurt the engine......only help it.

--Never use the "economy" button on your transmission. This button allows for early shifting theoretically saving fuel. Early shifting of the Maxxforce causes lugging which causes soot and carbon build up which leads to a parked regen which uses way more fuel that what you will save by driving in economy mode.

--Never use cruise control on inclines. This causes the engine to lug. Shift manually going up inclines to increase engine RPMs. Run as many engine RPMs going up grades as possible without overheating. The ECM computer will not let you over rev or damage the engine.

--if you have an Exhaust brake use it and use it on high setting......we want those RPMs and heat.

--Load-er-up. Within the GCVW limits of your coach cary as much weight as possible. Make the engine work as much as possible. Don't try to drive with empty tanks ect. The more work you ask the engine to do the better.

--Drive the interstate speed limit and up to whatever speed you feel safe controlling the coach. I pass so many coaches doing 50 or 55 and for a Maxxforce this is just horrible (especially if your tranny is in economy mode). If you are comfortable and the speed limit allows drive as fast as you can safely. I personally keep the cruise at 70 to 75mph and in many states run 80mph. I drive 10-12k miles per month and feel safe and only when conditions / speed limits allow. The point here is faster as long as it safe is better for the engine.

If your comfort level is such you must drive these slower speeds use the down shift arrow to lock you into a lower gear and thus higher RPMs.

(I always hear the fuel economy argument. Honestly, if you own an RVs fuel really isn't a consideration and anything you save fuel wise you will spend in repairs due to soot build up. Trust me. Also you will be saving on oil changes because everyone I meet with an RVs wants to over change the oil at too close of intervals.)

--Limit driving in-town to an absolute minimum.

....So now that I have everyone in a tizzie with my suggestions let me explain why all of these are absolutely necessary for this engine.

This engine is best suited for medium to heavy duty applications for highway use. No matter how heavy our RVs are, how much we tow or how much we drive them they do not even begin to compare to what an over-the-road commercial truck would ask from the engine. The engine is so over-designed for light duty and RV applications this causes problems. This engine can easily move around twice the weight of even our heaviest RV. The engine is on permanent vacation in an RV.

The break in period for this engine is 150,000 miles apx.

The engine as we all know does not use DEF and uses a regen process. Every single advice I offered above is to reduce or eliminate the build-up of soot and carbon thus eliminating or reducing the need for a parked regen. Honest to God I have never done a parked regen on my 2011 knight now with just over 100,000 miles on it.

The engine must stay as hot as possible while running and not be lugged or idled. This keeps soot to a minimum. Long and highspeed drive times burn off carbon and soot during automatic regens. If you are always puttering around the auto regen will either will not take place or will take place at less than optimal temperatures, intervals and durations.

The fuel additive, Syn oil and such again minimizes soot build up and idling times.

Hard accelerations and working the motor are good for it....I am amazed his many people think they are saving a motor by babying it......this is a big rig motor and it needs to be worked as hard as you can....which no matter what you do in an RV is still not enough!!!

The kiss of death for this engine is to be run irregularly, at low speeds, be lugged and to idle for any amount of time. This engine is poorly suited for in-town delivery trucks, busses, airport shuttle vehicles ect. This engine is the master of long haul highway speeds. It will never die if used appropriately and best suited to its design potential. The design overhaul interval is at a minimum of 850,000 miles.

Its very unfortunate this engine has been allowed to be installed into applications not suited for its design. Trucking companies and other applications using this series of engines to its strengths never have problems and never or almost never have to do a parked regen.

So there you have. I am sure I will get some very grumpy responses. My advice is based on close to 1 million miles of experience with this engine and again...knock on wood....I have never had a single failure or repair on any of my Maxxforce engines. I have never done a parked regen on my Monaco Knight. My advice is also based on my own in-house full diesel shop with 3 full time mechanics.

I stand firm this is the absolute best engine on the market for medium to heavy duty applications.....(for strictly heavy duty apps I like Detroits) whenever you hear someone bash the engine or share horror stories if you learn how the engine has been operated always I find its been done so in a misapplied application.

All the best,

Jim