MaxForce 10 failure

[Rob_M]

Originally Posted by Nemisus

Were there years that were better off? I ask because my in-laws just acquired a 2014/2015 Ambassador with the Maxforce.

Thanks for posting this.

On our fleet of trucks the pre-DEF fluid emission system was less reliable than the ones that started injecting DEF fluid. They did get more reliable as Navistar worked out some of the Emissions related problems. I don’t remember what year ranges were what, But my service truck was one of the first batches they leased and it was towed seven times in the first year and driven to the dealership multiple other times in 3 years.
They eventually had to lease more trucks just to have spares because they were stuck at the dealership so much.

The company I work for eventually used litigation to get out from under a lease agreement for hundreds of class seven service trucks with the Navistar max force 10 engines. These would be the same engines that were put in motorhomes. We now run Peterbuilts with the 9 L Cummins Which have proven to be very reliable.

[Traps90]

We had our 2013 Monaco 43DFT for 6-1/2 years. The only issue I had was it needed to get a new wiring harness installed. The original was rubbing on something and kept throwing codes saying Cam Position timing was off.
Navistar replaced the sensor twice before digging farther to find a whole the size of my little finger nail warn through the harness.
I did have to do 2 Parked regens in the time we owned, but that was cause of excess idling.
(Once while in Coburg at Factory for warranty work where it was started every morning and evening then brought back out to us.)
After the last computer update we had we never had to do another parked regen. The best advice for this engine is do not idle anymore than absolutely necessary and drive it like you stole it, putting around or babying this engine is not good for it.

[Rob_M]

Originally Posted by Traps90

….The best advice for this engine is do not idle anymore than absolutely necessary and drive it like you stole it, putting around or babying this engine is not good for it.

That is very good advice. Fact is, at less than 60mph I would drop down to 5th gear to keep rpm’s up. To do a regen while driving the rpm’s need to be above a certain level.

Most of our issues were stopped up exhaust filters and charge air coolers. The latter is caused by the aggressive EGR system Navistar used to pass emissions. We also found that changing the oil at 5,000 miles or less helped to keep the CAC clear.
We do in-fact idle our trucks quite a bit because we run a crane and / or air compressor off the pto. At idle the turbos were slobbering oil into the intake tract. Clean oil went on through the CAC, carboned up dirty oil stopped it up.

[cobiker]

We are in the process of upgrading the steering box on our 2013 Monaco Knight 36PFT and the shop per my request was checking out a few other things like the lose of radiator fluid and the EGR / CAC hoses on the engine, a Maxxforce 10.

Well the shop came back saying the turbo is gone, leaking oil and into the CAC. both turbos I guess since they want to replace 2 at a cost of $16k. Ouch!

Not what we expected, however I would like to find someone local to the Denver area that has experience with the Maxxforce 10 to get another opinion if possible and find the cause for the failure. Not simply replace the turbos and have them fail again.

Any suggestions?

[Rob_M]

Originally Posted by cobiker

We are in the process of upgrading the steering box on our 2013 Monaco Knight 36PFT and the shop per my request was checking out a few other things like the lose of radiator fluid and the EGR / CAC hoses on the engine, a Maxxforce 10.



Well the shop came back saying the turbo is gone, leaking oil and into the CAC. both turbos I guess since they want to replace 2 at a cost of $16k. Ouch!



Not what we expected, however I would like to find someone local to the Denver area that has experience with the Maxxforce 10 to get another opinion if possible and find the cause for the failure. Not simply replace the turbos and have them fail again.



Any suggestions?

I would get a second opinion from the International truck dealership in the area. My work truck with a Maxxforce 10 slobbered oil into the CAC the whole time I drove it. The CAC had to be cleaned out a couple times but the International dealership here never replaced a turbo. They said they all slobber when idling and recommended changing the oil at 5,000 miles and it quit plugging up the CAC with carbon.

My recommendation is clean the CAC, put it back together and sell it. Or keep it and keep throwing money at it. Unfortunately you’ll eventually have to buy a new engine.

[cobiker]

Took the RV to International / Navistar Service Center in Aurora Denver for a second opinion.

They performed both a KOEO and KOER test and all completed ok.

Inspected for leaks, no signs of leaks other than CAC pipe. Confirmed that CAC pipe was leak origin. Found more at turbo inlet. After seeing that crank case breather was a closed system and with point of leaks. Suspect that the crank case breather is full and needs to be replaced. Along with CAC and Turbo cleaning.

Corrective Action to be Remove CAC and Flush out, remove turbos and clean turbos, replace crank case breather.

Still expensive but not as much as the cost to replace the turbos from the original shop and really would have ended up with the same issue down the road since they didn't recommend replacement of the crank case breather.

Moral of the story, It's work getting a second opinion. Saving $8k in this case. And keep up with your oil changes.

[Rob_M]

Originally Posted by cobiker

Took the RV to International / Navistar Service Center in Aurora Denver for a second opinion.



They performed both a KOEO and KOER test and all completed ok.



Inspected for leaks, no signs of leaks other than CAC pipe. Confirmed that CAC pipe was leak origin. Found more at turbo inlet. After seeing that crank case breather was a closed system and with point of leaks. Suspect that the crank case breather is full and needs to be replaced. Along with CAC and Turbo cleaning.



Corrective Action to be Remove CAC and Flush out, remove turbos and clean turbos, replace crank case breather.



Still expensive but not as much as the cost to replace the turbos from the original shop and really would have ended up with the same issue down the road since they didn't recommend replacement of the crank case breather.



Moral of the story, It's work getting a second opinion. Saving $8k in this case. And keep up with your oil changes. [emoji144]

I’m glad you were able to get it fixed properly and saved a pile of money.

Keeping the oil changed at 5,000 will keep your CAC clean longer and try not to lug that engine. If you’re driving slower than 60, running in 5th instead of 6th will keep your rpm’s up and exhaust filter clean longer and possibly eliminate needing to do parked regens. And you might be surprised that it doesn’t hurt fuel economy.

[Bussytom]

I have a 2013 Holiday Rambler Endeavor which I had to replace the engine at my expense in Jan ‘22 due to egr problems. Since then I broke down with less then 2000 miles and 8 months on the new engine, which I was told had a 24 month warranty. This breakdown was due to a faulty injector. After repair in Oct ‘22 I put less than 3000 miles on it and another breakdown on a trip this month July, 400 miles from home. Seems to be the same problem, faulty injector. Rush service center just started looking at it. I’m now down to less than 6 months on my original warranty with the replacement engine. Supposedly warranty will pay for it but I’m running out of time on this warranty, history says it could happen again after expired warranty. Question is can I demand a another engine replacement at their cost not mine. Any advice would be welcomed.

[Bussytom]

A follow up to my max-force engine failure nearly 2 years ago on my 2013 Endeavor. We replaced the original engine with a rebuilt engine at a major expense to us. After being told by RWC that we’d be better off going with the extra cost of the new engine because it would have a 2 year warranty on it we decided to go that route. Less than a year later we were an a trip and a problem developed with a fuel injector, at this point it had less than 3000 miles on the engine. International covered this cost since it was less than 2 years. After a month in the shop we got it back home. Now this year, we went on another extended trip, 2 days into it and 400 miles from home another engine failure. After another tow at our expense it’s been determined another injector failure. We’re now 1 1/2 year and less than 5000 miles into this new engine, we hear back from the repair shop that International will not cover this because it’s part of the fuel system which they say is only warrantied for 1 year. We were never told there were exceptions to the 2 year warranty and would never think the injectors were separate from the engine. At the point now where perhaps a lawyer should get involved. Does anyone have any advice for me. Thanks.

[DblDragger]

Originally Posted by Bussytom

A follow up to my max-force engine failure nearly 2 years ago on my 2013 Endeavor. We replaced the original engine with a rebuilt engine at a major expense to us. After being told by RWC that we’d be better off going with the extra cost of the new engine because it would have a 2 year warranty on it we decided to go that route. Less than a year later we were an a trip and a problem developed with a fuel injector, at this point it had less than 3000 miles on the engine. International covered this cost since it was less than 2 years. After a month in the shop we got it back home. Now this year, we went on another extended trip, 2 days into it and 400 miles from home another engine failure. After another tow at our expense it’s been determined another injector failure. We’re now 1 1/2 year and less than 5000 miles into this new engine, we hear back from the repair shop that International will not cover this because it’s part of the fuel system which they say is only warrantied for 1 year. We were never told there were exceptions to the 2 year warranty and would never think the injectors were separate from the engine. At the point now where perhaps a lawyer should get involved. Does anyone have any advice for me. Thanks.

I doubt a lawyer will do you any good, because somewhere in the fine print of that two-year warranty the fuel system was excluded. I bought our 2013 Ambassador in Dec. of '21 and purchased a three year extended warranty. I didn't do due diligence and learned emissions aren't covered. I just got it back from the shop for an overfueling issue, and to my good fortune it wasn't emissions related, so my extended warranty will cover it. They had it for two weeks and tore it down! They found a bad MAF and broken wire was the culprit, but also found play in the primary turbo shaft. We had a trip planned over the weekend, so they put it back together for us to use it and are going to get approval for the turbo, then I'll take it back. I guess my point is find a good shop with knowledgeable techs who aren't afraid to go the extra mile in diagnosis. So many shops--especially dealerships--just want to throw parts at a problem and send you down the road. Good Luck!
Oh, and for what it's worth, the Maxxforce 10 is the engine used in the US military in the MRAPs. The only difference is the military is exempt from emissions regulations. Take away the EGR & DPF, and the MF10 is one stout motor.

[Hpozzuoli]

I have 2 extremely expensive and unreliable MTU diesels in my boat. My power stroke powered F350 sepnt more time in the shop than on the road. My wife’s blue TEC doesn’t like the cold and my Cat powered excavator keeps getting water in the fuel. The only reliable diesel I have besides my yanmar powered John Deere Gator is my EPA7 Maxforce in my Breeze.

The boat has been sold. No more MTU issues. The power stroke was replaced with a gas powered F350. No more issues there. My wife dumped the Blue Tec and drives a 5 series now. The excavator steamed 2 cylinders and sent a rod out the side of the block.

The only thing I can count on is my Maxforce. The EPA7 is different than the EPA10. I believe the 10 has Def or a more robust emissions system bolted on it.