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10-12-2014, 11:59 PM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,510
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Adding "real" Jake brake to an ISC
Does anyone have any experience adding a Jake Brake (engine compression brake, NOT exhaust brake) to an ISC engine? I see the parts required can be bought (used) at a reasonable price at a number of salvage operations. The changeover looks fairly straightforward, with the Jake Brake components essentially replacing the existing rocker arm supports. And it appears the signal that activates the PacBrake can be used to operate the compression brake and cause the Allison to downshift
I'm surprised how little info I've turned up searching the Internet about this swap. A diesel mechanic friend (who has never made this swap) says he does not see any problems with it. There is quite a bit of info about adding Jake Brakes to the 5.9 engines used in Dodge trucks, but nothing I can find about the ISC.
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10-13-2014, 06:56 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club Texas Boomers Club
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,529
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??? I Googled "jake brake on isc" and found lots of discussion...
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Hal & Ginny Miller '04 Beaver Santiam PRT40
'04 Saturn Vue - US Gear Brake - Blue Ox tow
3"girls" (2 Irish Setters - 1 Retriever) - RIP Annie & Emily (12/26/2017)
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10-13-2014, 04:01 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: North America somewhere
Posts: 30,903
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I've searched for a few hours, nothing about a compression brake for the ISC 8.3. Have you considered a VVT-Varible Vane Turbocharger? Apparently that is what Cummins uses on the ISC.
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2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD , ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA IN 1SG 11B5MX,Infantry retired;Good Sam Life member,FMCA. " My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. John F. Kennedy
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10-13-2014, 04:12 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Henderson, Nevada
Posts: 1,224
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FYI, The "Pac Brake" (Paccar Part) will have better Braking than the "Jacobs" brand, my 1989 Pete Cat 3406B model came with a Jacob and I had switched it to the Pac Brake when it came out within a year after the purchase, at that time new in box was $1,200.00
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2005 Newmar DS 4023, Spartan Chassis, ISL 370 Cumapart, 2008 Jeep Rubicon 4dr, 2015 Kia Soul, 1969 Italian & 2004 Akita
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10-13-2014, 04:18 PM
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#5
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Senior Member
Country Coach Owners Club Solo Rvers Club iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 37,725
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You might find that upgrading to a PRXB exhaust brake from Pacbrake would be cheaper and far easier.
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft, HWH Active Air
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA,
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '21 Jeep JLU Rubicon Ecodiesel
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10-13-2014, 04:22 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Official iRV2 Sponsor
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 8,305
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMTTRANSPORT
FYI, The "Pac Brake" (Paccar Part) will have better Braking than the "Jacobs" brand, my 1989 Pete Cat 3406B model came with a Jacob and I had switched it to the Pac Brake when it came out within a year after the purchase, at that time new in box was $1,200.00
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I believe that the CAT 3406B was a great engine before the introduction of modern electronic engine control. It's my understanding that the operation of engine brakes was quite a bit different on engines of that era. As a result, I suspect your experiences with the Paccar and Jacobs brakes is not relevant to today's engines. My Jacobs engine brake works quite well with my C-12.
__________________
Joel (AKA docj)--
RV Technology Specialist
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10-13-2014, 04:43 PM
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#7
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Registered User
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 8,777
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vanwill
Does anyone have any experience adding a Jake Brake (engine compression brake, NOT exhaust brake) to an ISC engine?
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMTTRANSPORT
FYI, The "Pac Brake" (Paccar Part) will have better Braking than the "Jacobs" brand, my 1989 Pete Cat 3406B model came with a Jacob and I had switched it to the Pac Brake when it came out within a year after the purchase, at that time new in box was $1,200.00
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DMTTRANSPORT
The OP asked about adding an "engine compression brake" to an ISC engine... NOT a Jacobs brand exhust brake or any other brand of "exhaust brake".
IMO you are comparing apples to oranges..... and to some other fruit, and confusing the issue....(aka: simply "muddying" the waters).
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10-13-2014, 05:21 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Henderson, Nevada
Posts: 1,224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mel s
DMTTRANSPORT
The OP asked about adding an "engine compression brake" to an ISC engine... NOT a Jacobs brand exhust brake or any other brand of "exhaust brake".
IMO you are comparing apples to oranges..... and to some other fruit, and confusing the issue....(aka: simply "muddying" the waters).
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Oh, so its called a Compression Brake, I was referring to a over head engine brake not an exhaust brake, what is it you are looking for sorry I muddied your water LOL! FYI, I happen to know the difference, it's not a COMPRESSION Brake it actually holds the exhaust valves open...............Releasing the COMPRESSION!
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2005 Newmar DS 4023, Spartan Chassis, ISL 370 Cumapart, 2008 Jeep Rubicon 4dr, 2015 Kia Soul, 1969 Italian & 2004 Akita
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10-13-2014, 05:26 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2014
Location: Henderson, Nevada
Posts: 1,224
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Quote:
Originally Posted by docj
I believe that the CAT 3406B was a great engine before the introduction of modern electronic engine control. It's my understanding that the operation of engine brakes was quite a bit different on engines of that era. As a result, I suspect your experiences with the Paccar and Jacobs brakes is not relevant to today's engines. My Jacobs engine brake works quite well with my C-12.
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My current Cat C15 Acert (2007) does have a Pac Brake also a Retarder (Brake Saver).........
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2005 Newmar DS 4023, Spartan Chassis, ISL 370 Cumapart, 2008 Jeep Rubicon 4dr, 2015 Kia Soul, 1969 Italian & 2004 Akita
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10-13-2014, 06:07 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 2,321
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Van,
To preface this comment, I am under the assumption that you need more engine braking than you now have.
My previous coach was a 38' 99 Dynasty and I had no problem descending 6% grade with a 5000 lb toad. If you are not getting braking from the PacBrake (non PRXB) something maybe amiss. Before throwing the baby out with the bath water, let's take a look at everything next week when I arrive.
An item you can check is the rear end ratio. My 99 Dynasty had a 4.78 ratio and my Camelot has a 4.30 ratio. Let me tell you that 10% difference is a big deal. Before I resolved my exhaust brake issues, I bought a 4.78 third member to swap out mine with. The reworked PacBrake helped slow me down on the 6% grades to an acceptable manner, but not as nice as the last coach. I added an MP-8 for going up the hill. Now that I can go up and down the local mountains better than when stock, I decided to accept what I have.
There is a tag, spot welded to the third member, with a lot of black paint on it. It will have the model number along with the ratio on it. Take a look.
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Harry
2008 Monaco Camelot 40' PDQ
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10-13-2014, 06:41 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
Posts: 1,195
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I'm sure it can be done, but I'm interested in how much your coach weighs... I just have an exhaust brake and as others have mentioned, I've never found myself lacking for braking -- if anything I sometimes find myself wishing that I could reduce the overall level of exhaust brake because on a 4-5% grade I end up cycling it on and off.
Steve
__________________
The Green Machine -- 2000 Mountain High Coachworks Summit (Spartan chassis / Cummins ISC)
...and F-Troop: Fearghus, Fiona, and Frankie (Cairn Terriers)
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10-13-2014, 06:49 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Miami, FL
Posts: 611
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Hmmm....wonder why Cummins engineers never offered it? My guess is that the ISC was never intended to be a class 8 truck engine hauling 72,000 lbs up and over the Rockies....
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10-13-2014, 06:52 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
Country Coach Owners Club Solo Rvers Club iRV2 No Limits Club
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Vancouver, WA
Posts: 37,725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMTTRANSPORT
Oh, so its called a Compression Brake, I was referring to a over head engine brake not an exhaust brake, what is it you are looking for sorry I muddied your water LOL! FYI, I happen to know the difference, it's not a COMPRESSION Brake it actually holds the exhaust valves open...............Releasing the COMPRESSION!
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Even though it releases the compression they still call them compression brakes.
__________________
2009 45' Magna 630 w/Cummins ISX 650 HP/1950 Lbs Ft, HWH Active Air
Charter Good Sam Lifetime Member, FMCA,
RV'ing since 1957, NRA Benefactor Life, towing '21 Jeep JLU Rubicon Ecodiesel
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10-13-2014, 07:24 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: North America somewhere
Posts: 30,903
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I must apologize, I incorrectly said a "Jake brake" is a compression brake, which is NOT true according to Jacobsvehiclesystems.com A Jake brake is the registered and trademarked brand, not the type.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Air Baron
Hmmm....wonder why Cummins engineers never offered it? My guess is that the ISC was never intended to be a class 8 truck engine hauling 72,000 lbs up and over the Rockies....
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You are right, it is a medium-duty truck engine according to Cummins.
DMTRANSPORT, you are correct in compression brake operation.
__________________
2000 Winnebago Ultimate Freedom USQ40JD , ISC 8.3 Cummins 350, Spartan MM Chassis. USA IN 1SG 11B5MX,Infantry retired;Good Sam Life member,FMCA. " My fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country. John F. Kennedy
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