Air Dog Installation

[imnprsd]

People are starting to ask me: Is FASS-TS electric pump is a better choice over AirDog or is it the other way around?

My answer is: Both are good pumps and you can't go wrong with either. Both pumps protect your CAPS injection pump from premature failure (ECM included) by enduring good lubrication and cooling; but there are some differences that may make your choice a bit easier to make. (IMO)

What we now know, thanks to "ArkensasRV" is that the AirDog "demand flow" pump does not return very much fuel to the tank. This benefit results in an easier and potentially cheaper installation if you are paying someone to install your pump over the FASS-TS pump (Part #TS-D08-95G).

The AirDog, not the FASS, will allow you to "T" into the CAPS fuel return line at the Lift Pump Manifold (aka Fuel Supply Manifold) and that may save you ~$150 in labor costs.

The FASS-TS pump is cheaper, but you need 38' of fuel return line, and a few different parts, so the total cost of the FASS solution is about the same as the total cost for the AirDog. Therefore, we need to look for other differences to help us make up our minds; and I think this may be it:

FASS "constant volume" pumps requires you to return a lot of unused fuel to the tank, which may be a good thing. (I am still evaluation this.) However, for now, we know with the FASS setup you will need to run 38' of fuel line at $3/ft or ~$120; plus the additional 1-2 hours of time it takes to install a fuel filler-neck "Y" adapter into your fuel filler neck...

...unless you have a Spartan Chassis with access to the top of your tank and you elect to drill a hole in the top of your tank and go that route.

In my case, my Freightliner Chassis does not allow me access to the top of the tank so I chose to return the FASS fuel to my fuel filter neck, which you can read all about here:

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f123/cum...mp-458337.html

Of course, the first time you do any custom modifications it takes more time and you hope you don't make a mistake. ("Measure twice, cut once," as they say.)

FUNCTIONALITY

The AirDog will vary fuel pressure to meet the demand flow of your CAPS injection system; and that means your fuel line PSI will drop as your fuel filters fill-up.

In fact, you can get a AirDog 10-PSI sensor that will trip a LED light (you can put on your dash) to signal when it's time to change your fuel filters, if this is important to you, but you will need to spend time running wires and installing the LED. (This is optional. And IMO, I would prefer to install a liquid filled fuel pressure gauge on top of my fuel filter for only $20.)

Consequently, the AirDog “dummy light” is of no value to me. But, if drive your RV all year, and want to save money on fuel filter changes, maybe you will feel different? To say the least this is a minor benefit at best.

So what are the major benefits that would lead someone to pick the FASS-TS "constant volume" pump over the AirDog-4G "demand flow" pump?

Answer: There may be only one, and that has to do with the how much more fuel the FASS system filters as you drive.

For example: If FASS filters 10x more fuel than the AirDog pump; and if that added filtration results in STRONGER/BETTER engine performance over 3,000 miles – like I experienced -- then it follows it will take AirDog 30,000 miles to do the same thing. (Just estimates of course.) ...But if this is true, IMO, that makes FASS a better choice over AirDog... after you consider these questions:

* Do you have a dirty fuel tank to begin with?
...And what 10+ year old RV doesn't?

* Would you rather wait 1 driving season to experience STRONGER/BETTER engine performance in only 3,000 miles as the FASS system cleans your tank; or can you wait for 30,000 miles to pass to accomplish the same thing with an AirDog pump?

...Why would you?

==> So again, for my needs, I would choose a FASS system (again) over AirDog even if it costs $150 more to install; which it doesn't in my case... since I did the installation myself. (DIY)

OTHER POINTS - COUNTERPOINTS

==> The FASS-TS pump is the same pump they use on Dodge Trucks and Semi Tractor Trailors. However, AirDog offers a different “truck line” of pumps, so if you go with AirDog for your RV, I recommend you do at “ArkansasRV” did and buy the beefier semi truck model # FPII-150 or go with the FPII-200.

For now, I hope we can all agree, if you have a CAPS injection system, you will save yourself a lot to aggravation, and money, if you choose to install and upgrade (by-pass) your stock Cummins Lift Pump to either the AirDog-4G or the FASS-TS pump?

We all are seeing more and more CAPS injection pump failures as our RVs age. Who knows when your CAPS pump will go due to ULSD fuels that have less sulfur content and therefore provide less lubrication and cooling to your CAPS injection system. To solve this problem, IMO, you should install either the AirDog-4G or the FASS-TS pump asap!

[Alpine36]

Originally Posted by Meames1

ArkansasRv ,
Thanks for posting this. I was on the fence between AD and FASS and this post confirmed what I have been thinking. My major concern was that on my coach running a new return line would be a huge project the way the basement was made. I liked the idea of not having to run a new line.
Your post turned me onto the industrial side of AD pumps. I ended up purchasing their setup for a Cummins N14 with remote filter after reviewing all their kits and the plumbing components. I actually "could have" installed the kit without buying any additional line or fittings. However, I decided to remove the #2 factory filter from the side of my engine and remote mount it next to the AD to make filter changes easier and not having diesel run down the starter while changing. That required a few feet of -10 braided hose and two fittings.
My setup is an ISC with all -10 lines to the #1 filter, to the stock lift pump, then to filter #2, and finally to CAPS pump. My return line on the stock lift pump manifold is -8, which is the size tee that the N14 kit came with and to the -6 adapter required for the AD return.
I will cap off the stock lift pump (I did have to buy the two caps), and install a relay to fool the computer.

Thanks again on the info.

Attachment 284639

Attachment 284640

This is something the boys at FASS should take to heart.
Their kit "component contents" are sorely lacking any technical information...so for guys like me really put me on the fence. What the heck comes with the kit? Apparently a picture is all you need lol.

Our FASS install on the Alpine required all AN10 fittings. One call to FASS insured me they sorely lack in commitment to large trucks and RVs. They don't carry any AN10 fittings and couldn't help me make it work after dropping $700 on their product.
Had to go to Jegs.
That said, I'm happy with the FASS, and notice similar driveability improvements, but dang they need to step up their customer service and online kit specification information if they want to tap into the RV, medium and heavy truck market.
Just my .02

[Arkansas RV]

Originally Posted by Alpine36

This is something the boys at FASS should take to heart.
Their kit "component contents" are sorely lacking any technical information...so for guys like me really put me on the fence. What the heck comes with the kit? Apparently a picture is all you need lol.

Our FASS install on the Alpine required all AN10 fittings. One call to FASS insured me they sorely lack in commitment to large trucks and RVs. They don't carry any AN10 fittings and couldn't help me make it work after dropping $700 on their product.
Had to go to Jegs.
That said, I'm happy with the FASS, and notice similar driveability improvements, but dang they need to step up their customer service and online kit specification information if they want to tap into the RV, medium and heavy truck market.
Just my .02

Alpine, Fass pumps are mainly geared to all the diesel pickups out there. AirDog the original pump for diesels has always been geared to the large diesels of OTR trucks, heavy industrial equipment etc. Our engines are in many large diesel trucks as well as heavy equipment. That was one of my reasons for going with them. 4 year warranty, beefier pump, demand flow pump, electronics for filter occlusion, can Tee into Caps return line, and the setup you order comes with all the appropriate fitting sizes such as 10 AN. They deal with large diesels everyday, it their bread and butter business.
They do make a pickup truck size pump setup if that’s what you want.
Lastly, Fass was formed by the son of the owner of AirDog. The Fass statement of “fuel polishing” sounds like snake water. If you think about it, constantly sending a large quantity of fuel back to the fuel tank does three things in my opinion; the filter is not filtering much fuel, fuel is getting heated by constant recirculating from engine to tank and finally the tank fuel is getting constantly stirred up not to mention adding more air to the fuel. Whereas AirDog recirculates fuel within the two filters when demand is low and in my mind the fuel is filtered more.
Both pumps pressurize our fuel systems, I believe one just does it better from my research.

[Meames1]

Originally Posted by Arkansas RV

Alpine, Fass pumps are mainly geared to all the diesel pickups out there. AirDog the original pump for diesels has always been geared to the large diesels of OTR trucks, heavy industrial equipment etc. Our engines are in many large diesel trucks as well as heavy equipment. That was one of my reasons for going with them. 4 year warranty, beefier pump, demand flow pump, electronics for filter occlusion, can Tee into Caps return line, and the setup you order comes with all the appropriate fitting sizes such as 10 AN. They deal with large diesels everyday, it their bread and butter business.
They do make a pickup truck size pump setup if that’s what you want.
Lastly, Fass was formed by the son of the owner of AirDog. The Fass statement of “fuel polishing” sounds like snake water. If you think about it, constantly sending a large quantity of fuel back to the fuel tank does three things in my opinion; the filter is not filtering much fuel, fuel is getting heated by constant recirculating from engine to tank and finally the tank fuel is getting constantly stirred up not to mention adding more air to the fuel. Whereas AirDog recirculates fuel within the two filters when demand is low and in my mind the fuel is filtered more.
Both pumps pressurize our fuel systems, I believe one just does it better from my research.

100% agree. To "Polish Fuel" you need to run it through filters...very large filters. Simply sending extra fuel back to the track does not polish fuel. Just look into fuel polishing services and how they do it. They are big in the boat world where several hundred gallons of fuel sits for sometimes years on end. Not trying to turn your thread into an Airdog vs FASS session. But my research and countless friends in the pulling tractor and HP diesel world led me to the choice I made. I'm sure either one will serve a MH well.

[imnprsd]

Sorry guys, but you sound very bias and are throwing your opinions out there and misstating the facts!

FASS-TS "constant volume" pumps DO filter the fuel before returning it to the tank. That implies 70+ gallons/hour are being filtered as you drive and that includes filtration through both FASS filters... or whatever brand you want to use.

Note: I called FASS and AirDog to confirm this. You may do the same.

So yes! Constant Volume pumps DO re-cycle and filter during the recycling process a lot of fuel. Maybe 10x-15x more fuel back to the tank than AirDog demand flow pumps, which is why I think there is a benefit to installing FASS over AirDog. Of course, if you want to convince yourself it's just "snake oil" and play party politics that's on you.

And, IMO, both AirDog-II-4G and FASS-TS pumps have reached the pinnacle in their product evolution when it comes to reliability and both would be an excellent choice when it comes to adding them to your ISC/ISL CAPS engine.

...And I'm not sure why it matters that the family relationships are. ...And both have been servicing the big truck semi market for years. So why do you keep falling back on this idea that this is salient feature?

[Alpine36]

Originally Posted by Arkansas RV

Alpine, Fass pumps are mainly geared to all the diesel pickups out there. AirDog the original pump for diesels has always been geared to the large diesels of OTR trucks, heavy industrial equipment etc. Our engines are in many large diesel trucks as well as heavy equipment. That was one of my reasons for going with them. 4 year warranty, beefier pump, demand flow pump, electronics for filter occlusion, can Tee into Caps return line, and the setup you order comes with all the appropriate fitting sizes such as 10 AN. They deal with large diesels everyday, it their bread and butter business.
They do make a pickup truck size pump setup if that’s what you want.
Lastly, Fass was formed by the son of the owner of AirDog. The Fass statement of “fuel polishing” sounds like snake water. If you think about it, constantly sending a large quantity of fuel back to the fuel tank does three things in my opinion; the filter is not filtering much fuel, fuel is getting heated by constant recirculating from engine to tank and finally the tank fuel is getting constantly stirred up not to mention adding more air to the fuel. Whereas AirDog recirculates fuel within the two filters when demand is low and in my mind the fuel is filtered more.
Both pumps pressurize our fuel systems, I believe one just does it better from my research.

Educate yourself about fuel polishing and your statement above completely contradicts itself.
FASS is an acronym for fuel air separation system, so not only does it filter fuel thru a water separator and secondary filtration, it returns that "polished" fuel, free of any air, back to tank at 100gph, while providing 17psi of air free fuel to the caps pump. That means on a five hour road trip the fuel in my tank has been filtered, turned over, polished, whatever you want to call it, five times thru three filters. I don't see a downside to this. Fuel polishing is not snake oil for those of us that have been around equipment forever.
Either system is a good choice for upgrading from the stock lift pump, with the AirDog being an easier install and the FASS returning more filtered fuel to the tank, continually. I'm not trying to hijack this AirDog install thread, but there are many fine folks wishing to upgrade their Cummins (or Cat) fuel systems, for good reason. My only point was to educate those interested in FASS installs, their "list of contents" lacks any technical specs. Not trying to start a AD vs FASS debate.

[imnprsd]

Why is anyone stuck on the marketing term fuel polishing or F.A.S.S.?

Both FASS and AD filter air, dirt, contaminants, and provide better injector atomization. And while atomization improvements probably benefit HPFR fuel injectors more, because these "smart" injectors are pressurized at ~40KPSI and are directly controlled by the ECM vs. our CAPS injectors that run closer to ~20K PSI, and are "dumb" injectors, which mean CAPS injectors will pass fried grease. I.e., we really don't care about atomization benefits, but we do care about algae gumming up the CAPS pump, because it's a precision pump that was not designed to run on USLD fuel. (Less sulfur means less lubrication.)

What CAPS injection pump users DO care about are improved lubrication and cooling benefits that either FASS or AirDog will provide. And the fact that these newer pumps also provide added filtration... this is a plus.

Airdog may or may not be easier to install. ...And neither pump manufactures markets an "RV Kit"....yet! So everyone has to come up with their own installation plan based on the chassis they have, side radiator or not, engine access, tank access, and desired pump location.

IMO, I prefer the FASS method of recycling fuel over-and-over, because it filters this fuel. This is by design. I.e., FASS is a "constant volume" pump.

IYO, if you think AirDog is easier to install, or if you need to be told when it's time to change your fuel filters, because AirDog PSI will drop PSI as the filters get more and more clogged, then by all means go that route. However, my guess is that you will be changing your filters based on time (1 or 2 years) and will not wait until you reach 30,000 miles, which is when ADog says is the distance their filters will go. Just like FASS.

...But in my Freightliner chassis, with 3 slideouts, a side radiator, and only top-engine-access thru the bedroom (because I have a basement AC blocking access behind the passenger side battery compartment) the FASS-TS pump was easier to install and cheaper in my application vs. AirDog-II-4G. Plus it does a better jog recycling & filtering fuel over AirDog as I have been trying to beat into our head!

* I did need to run 38' of FASS fuel return line to my fuel filler neck, but that was not difficult do in my Winnebago/Itasca with a Freightliner Chassis. In fact, it was easy. You just need to feel comfortable using a Saws-All with a metal blade. And if you don't have one of these, then by all means take your coach to someone else. ...But any handyman can do this FASS installation.

Could I have installed AirDog-II-4G in the same place? ...Yes. But then I would have needed to disconnect the full lines to my lift pump manifold, or by-pass the lift pump manifold all together, and I did NOT want to do that! ...And I would still have a dirty fuel tank to contend with for the next 20,000 - 30,000 miles, because AirDog only "polishes" what the engine uses.

[Arkansas RV]

Lots of what ifs being mentioned. Any pump that pressurizes the Capps system will work to alleviate the the inherent problems. Am I biased, well is the guy that is a Chevy fan biased, how about Toyo vs Bridgestone tires, we all have are favorites. I researched for a year all data I could find to fix the Capps deficiencies, which lead me to the above two mentioned pumps. There is much out there on YouTube and the internet about these two pumps. It’s in the details people. I chose the pump I did for my stated reasons and I won’t say more than that. AirDogs specialty is industrial diesel industry, they welcome user feed back; and if someone wants to use their product in a motor home they will work to help you do that. Happy pumping guys

[Meames1]

LOL, carry on

[imnprsd]

When I installed my FASS-TS pump in the exact same place as my primary filter (before the stock lift pump)… everyone told me I had to disconnect my stock lift pump wires to the ECM, and install a dummy relay, to fool the ECM, and to keep my dash warning light from coming on. So that’s what I did. And all is working great!

…But 8,000 miles later, here's some things I would do different.

DISCONNECTING YOUR LIFT PUMP WIRES -- MAY NOT BE NECESSARY ANYMORE

==> Assuming there is nothing wrong with your current lift pump, then...

I installed the FASS-TS pump myself; and I think any handyman can handle this upgrade. However, I did not feel comfortable pulling down my stock lift pump wires (working blind) because these things are hidden above the starter and you have to “feel” your way around and separate your wire-connector with one hand. So I took my RV to Freightliner and they charged me $350 to perform this service.

...But what if you can just leave your lift pump fuel lines and electrical connects "as-is"?

...Wouldn't that save you 2 hours of installation time and you $350 by avoiding a trip to your mechanic? ...Yes, I think it would. ...But how?

Two options:

1) Add a toggle switch in your dash to manually turn-on your FASS pump after your engine starts.

or

2) Add a 1-minute delay “on” relay (like this one) to your FASS or AirDog relay connector. I recommend you order 2 of these relays so you have one for a back-up:

Beuler BU510TD 12 VDC Automotive 5-Pin SPDT Time Delay Relay with adjustable timing - Delay On

https://www.qualitymobilevideo.com/bu510td.html

Note: Since FASS and AirDog use a 4-pin relay connector you will need to clip-off the center of the 5-pin relay, which you don’t need anyway.

WHY USE A 1-MINUTE-TIME-DELAY-RELAY?

* Using the delay relay will create an automatic switch on & off design.

* When you turn the key to “On” your OEM lift pump will start to prime the injection pump. Then under ECM control your lift pump will turn “off” in 30 seconds, as it should. And this will allow you to start your engine.

* If you have a CAPS lift pump you see +15PSI; and if you have a HPCR lift pump your will see +70 PSI delivered to your injection pump.

* Then after 30 seconds... and you start your engine normally... your injection driving gear pump will take over and it will draw/suck -5PSI of vacuum pressure to move fuel from the tank.

* ...And 1 minute after you turn your ignition key (with the time-delay-relay installed) your FASS/AirDog pump will start; and you will see ~18PSI with the FASS and ~25PSI with the AirDog... delivered to your injection pump... and hopefully your fuel delivery problems will be solved!

…Alternatively, as mentioned, instead of using a delay-on-relay... you can flip the toggle switch in your dash if you choose that route. ... JUST DON'T FORGET TO TURN THE PUMP OFF!

This approach will work with either FASS or AirDog pump using CAPS injection. And it's a must for HPCR injection systems since your lift pumps need to produce +70PSI or more to start your engines. So going with a switch or delay-relay is your only option if you are having engine problems associated with old fuel lines... like this owner is fighting right now:

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f123/cum...cm-469287.html

...And if there is something wrong with your current CAPS system lift pump, then IMO you should not spend the money to repair it... rather, I think that money would be better spent on a FASS or AirDog upgrade. ...But again, if your dash light is not lit, then just leave your lift pump "as-is" (you do not need it) unless you are leaking fuel, which will then require you to by pass the stock CAPS lift pump, but again I still see no reason why you need to disconnect the lift pump wires... just because everyone who has not thought thru this problem, to the extent I have, tell you this is what you have to do? ...It's not!

Good luck! ...And please share your result with us if you use a delay-on-relay setup.
__________________

[Arkansas RV]

Originally Posted by imnprsd

When I installed my FASS-TS pump in the exact same place as my primary filter (before the stock lift pump)… everyone told me I had to disconnect my stock lift pump wires to the ECM, and install a dummy relay, to fool the ECM, and to keep my dash warning light from coming on. So that’s what I did. And all is working great!

…But 8,000 miles later, here's some things I would do different.

DISCONNECTING YOUR LIFT PUMP WIRES -- MAY NOT BE NECESSARY ANYMORE

==> Assuming there is nothing wrong with your current lift pump, then...

I installed the FASS-TS pump myself; and I think any handyman can handle this upgrade. However, I did not feel comfortable pulling down my stock lift pump wires (working blind) because these things are hidden above the starter and you have to “feel” your way around and separate your wire-connector with one hand. So I took my RV to Freightliner and they charged me $350 to perform this service.

...But what if you can just leave your lift pump fuel lines and electrical connects "as-is"?

...Wouldn't that save you 2 hours of installation time and you $350 by avoiding a trip to your mechanic? ...Yes, I think it would. ...But how?

Two options:

1) Add a toggle switch in your dash to manually turn-on your FASS pump after your engine starts.

or

2) Add a 1-minute delay “on” relay (like this one) to your FASS or AirDog relay connector. I recommend you order 2 of these relays so you have one for a back-up:

Beuler BU510TD 12 VDC Automotive 5-Pin SPDT Time Delay Relay with adjustable timing - Delay On

https://www.qualitymobilevideo.com/bu510td.html

Note: Since FASS and AirDog use a 4-pin relay connector you will need to clip-off the center of the 5-pin relay, which you don’t need anyway.

WHY USE A 1-MINUTE-TIME-DELAY-RELAY?

* Using the delay relay will create an automatic switch on & off design.

* When you turn the key to “On” your OEM lift pump will start to prime the injection pump. Then under ECM control your lift pump will turn “off” in 30 seconds, as it should. And this will allow you to start your engine.

* If you have a CAPS lift pump you see +15PSI; and if you have a HPCR lift pump your will see +70 PSI delivered to your injection pump.

* Then after 30 seconds... and you start your engine normally... your injection driving gear pump will take over and it will draw/suck -5PSI of vacuum pressure to move fuel from the tank.

* ...And 1 minute after you turn your ignition key (with the time-delay-relay installed) your FASS/AirDog pump will start; and you will see ~18PSI with the FASS and ~25PSI with the AirDog... delivered to your injection pump... and hopefully your fuel delivery problems will be solved!

…Alternatively, as mentioned, instead of using a delay-on-relay... you can flip the toggle switch in your dash if you choose that route. ... JUST DON'T FORGET TO TURN THE PUMP OFF!

This approach will work with either FASS or AirDog pump using CAPS injection. And it's a must for HPCR injection systems since your lift pumps need to produce +70PSI or more to start your engines. So going with a switch or delay-relay is your only option if you are having engine problems associated with old fuel lines... like this owner is fighting right now:

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f123/cum...cm-469287.html

...And if there is something wrong with your current CAPS system lift pump, then IMO you should not spend the money to repair it... rather, I think that money would be better spent on a FASS or AirDog upgrade. ...But again, if your dash light is not lit, then just leave your lift pump "as-is" (you do not need it) unless you are leaking fuel, which will then require you to by pass the stock CAPS lift pump, but again I still see no reason why you need to disconnect the lift pump wires... just because everyone who has not thought thru this problem, to the extent I have, tell you this is what you have to do? ...It's not!

Good luck! ...And please share your result with us if you use a delay-on-relay setup.
__________________

Imnprsd, early on I would of agreed with you. However, having been in contact with a 35 year veteran shop that specializes in Injection pumps. His advise to me was loose the stock lift pump, with all of its inherent problems. It’s the weak link in the system as many have spoke of on this subject. It’s the proverbial accident waiting to happen. Whether Fass or AirDog, each will get the job done, it’s the OEM lift pump that’s the ticking time bomb. BTW, was wondering why AirDog highly recommends by passing the lift pump; well because it’s the weak link in the system.

[imnprsd]

ArkansasRV: I think you are over dramatizing the lift pump problem, which is really a lift pump gasket problem.

You talk gospel like your mechanic know all and sees all... But like Chevy vs. Ford debates the truth is usually a combination of the two. (Your a Chevy guy right?)

It separates the "purists" from the "realists" along the way...

Just like for decades everyone said you have to mount your FASS/ADog next to the fuel tank. ...But that's not true!

And what about all those mechanics who charged their customers for a new lift pump when just a new gasket would due? ...Not your mechanic I'm sure. He sounds like a guy I would use, as we have talked about when I pick-up my coach in Arkansas this summer.

But all this smoke about a "ticking time bomb" is just your opinion, based on how other people have influenced you. Right?

There are lots of RVs on the road with stock lift pumps that have more than 200,000 miles and never leaked once... or if they did it was in pre-2002 models with known gasket issues.

So, okay, IMO, if you have a pre-2002 I will go along with your dire warnings and also recommend owners by-pass their lift pump. ...but only because I wouldn't want them to spend money replacing that gasket on the fuel deliver side. I.e., it would be better to by-pass it.

As for AirDog and FASS technical support, they still think our ISC/ISL motor lift pumps work like a Dodge or Chevy truck. In fact, after talking with many FASS and ADog support personnel I can tell I know more about CAPS and HPCR RV fuel injection systems than those guys... and that ain't saying much about their advice when it comes to installing one of their pumps in an RV.

I'm in conversation with an AirDog guy right now over using a delay-on-relay so I will share what they have to say on IRV2 as soon as they answer my email.

My testimony is this: I have over 8,000 miles on my FASS-TS pump and I routed fuel through my lift pump, and I have had no problems; and I don't expect any either.

NEW OPTIONS WHEN DEALING WITH LIFT PUMP ELECTRICAL WIRES

Owners can save 2+ hours by just installing a 30s-60s delay-on-relay in the FASS or ADog relay harness. This will result in a $350-$500 savings if you are paying someone to do your aftermarket pump installation.

...And had I known about this option, that's what would do, if I could do my installation all over again.

I can't fault your conservative thinking, but I also think people need to know what options there are available to them. ...Because a savings of $350-$500 maybe the difference of someone installing or not installing an FASS or AirDog pump, and I think everyone with a CAPS should have one of these. And with a delay-on-relay approach this means any handyman can do this upgrade easily.

I'm curious: Are you still of the opinion AirDog pumps are better than FASS? ...Because I don't see that unless they are cheaper to install and they are not. Sorry, but that's my opinion. I like both FASS and AirDog, but for different reasons.

What did your mechanic charge you for your AirDog Installation? I forget.

[Arkansas RV]

Originally Posted by imnprsd

ArkansasRV: I think you are over dramatizing the lift pump problem, which is really a lift pump gasket problem.

You talk gospel like your mechanic know all and sees all... But like Chevy vs. Ford debates the truth is usually a combination of the two. (Your a Chevy guy right?)

It separates the "purists" from the "realists" along the way...

Just like for decades everyone said you have to mount your FASS/ADog next to the fuel tank. ...But that's not true!

And what about all those mechanics who charged their customers for a new lift pump when just a new gasket would due? ...Not your mechanic I'm sure. He sounds like a guy I would use, as we have talked about when I pick-up my coach in Arkansas this summer.

But all this smoke about a "ticking time bomb" is just your opinion, based on how other people have influenced you. Right?

There are lots of RVs on the road with stock lift pumps that have more than 200,000 miles and never leaked once... or if they did it was in pre-2002 models with known gasket issues.

So, okay, IMO, if you have a pre-2002 I will go along with your dire warnings and also recommend owners by-pass their lift pump. ...but only because I wouldn't want them to spend money replacing that gasket on the fuel deliver side. I.e., it would be better to by-pass it.

As for AirDog and FASS technical support, they still think our ISC/ISL motor lift pumps work like a Dodge or Chevy truck. In fact, after talking with many FASS and ADog support personnel I can tell I know more about CAPS and HPCR RV fuel injection systems than those guys... and that ain't saying much about their advice when it comes to installing one of their pumps in an RV.

I'm in conversation with an AirDog guy right now over using a delay-on-relay so I will share what they have to say on IRV2 as soon as they answer my email.

My testimony is this: I have over 8,000 miles on my FASS-TS pump and I routed fuel through my lift pump, and I have had no problems; and I don't expect any either.

NEW OPTIONS WHEN DEALING WITH LIFT PUMP ELECTRICAL WIRES

Owners can save 2+ hours by just installing a 30s-60s delay-on-relay in the FASS or ADog relay harness. This will result in a $350-$500 savings if you are paying someone to do your aftermarket pump installation.

...And had I known about this option, that's what would do, if I could do my installation all over again.

I can't fault your conservative thinking, but I also think people need to know what options there are available to them. ...Because a savings of $350-$500 maybe the difference of someone installing or not installing an FASS or AirDog pump, and I think everyone with a CAPS should have one of these. And with a delay-on-relay approach this means any handyman can do this upgrade easily.

I'm curious: Are you still of the opinion AirDog pumps are better than FASS? ...Because I don't see that unless they are cheaper to install and they are not. Sorry, but that's my opinion. I like both FASS and AirDog, but for different reasons.

What did your mechanic charge you for your AirDog Installation? I forget.

In a perfect world it would be fine to pump fuel thru the lift pump as I initially was going to do. However there has been much stated on this site about the problems that can occur with our Caps lift pumps; loose screws, gasket failure, sticking check valve or just plain wearing out.
My mechanic warned me of potential problems of the Capps system and lift pump after I bought my coach. Mine functioned perfectly With no leaks. I didn’t want to be worrying about future problems. You can place all the gadgets you want into the system but the lift pump is still the problem.
Cost to install the AirDog would of been the same as for a Fass installation, labor is labor. I would of liked to of done the install myself but the old body ain’t what it used to be. Installation is straight forward but not for an old guy with history of ruptured disks in his back.
And yes I feel the AirDog is a better system only because they deal with industrial engines entirely and for us and pickups it’s a sideline.

[RVMarty]

Considering installing this air dog kit on my 04 Endeavor. I looked on the air dog sight and could not find a universal kit. Do you have a part number or link to the exact kit you bought? Or is it best to just call them? Thanks!