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Old 08-08-2022, 06:57 PM   #1
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Another Fuel solenoid issue

I just read Johnís post regarding his issue which is similar to mine but I didnít want to steal his thread so.
I replaced my solenoid almost exactly a year ago and it worked fine until the second day of the trip Iím on now.
At first it just quit pulling up the lever so I have been doing it manually for the past week when I had to start it and all was good. I have 3 or 4 meters at home (probably bought all but one while travelling and forgot to bring one) but just a test light with me. Anyway the last couple times I went to shut it off it took a second or two where usually itís instant.
Does that give anyone a clue as to what is going on? To me it seems like itís getting power for a bit after the key is off which never happened before. Could that mean the relay or starter solenoid which I think is the same is failing?
I can get by with lift the bed every time I need to start it if I have to so that we can finish the trip and get back home but am worried that if itís the relay it might leave me stranded and running around for parts in the least desirable area.
Iím thinking on picking up a new one just in case and change it if the wife gives me some time off while weíre on this trip.
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Old 08-08-2022, 07:21 PM   #2
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I take it this is an ISC with the P-7100 injection pump.

The having to lift the solenoid to start , means there could be issues with the solenoid, itís control relay or the power fuse in the lift circuit.
Your fuse in the lock circuit must be ok or the engine wouldnít continue to run ,once started.

Delayed shut down, could be internal in the solenoid, or, binding in the pump linkage attached to the solenoid and pump.
Test light on the three wires will confirm , lift voltage during engine cranking, lock power with key on , and immediate no power at key off.
Pick up a replacement just in case the solenoid fails completely, and clean and lube the linkage between the solenoid and the pump.
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Old 08-09-2022, 04:00 AM   #3
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Yes sorry it’s the P7100 and it holds when started so I’m assuming it has power on that wire but thought when the key was turned off it lost power so should shut off ok. I will check the linkage today and test for power.
I have terrible internet for the last couple days so just posting this took most of the evening last night to type it and post while I had service for a bit. So looking things up right now is pretty much out but I think there is a fuse like you mentioned which I did check for and couldn’t find any blown. Then if I remember right it goes to a solenoid in the bay at the back which is also for the starter and through a circuit breaker. So if the fuel shut off solenoid isn’t getting power on the the red wire it will have to be the solenoid in the bay or the circuit breaker which is also in the bay at the back. I don’t have any schematics for my wiring so I’m not sure which circuit breaker it could be or how to find it with a test light.
Today we’re moving to a new area where they said we will have internet so hopefully I can find a schematic on it then.
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Old 08-09-2022, 12:23 PM   #4
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I mistakenly referred to your engine as an ISC , I should have used the designation 8.3C, 12 valve , as the ISC was the 24 valve version with CAPS injector pump, introduced in 1998.

I have this wiring diagram for the Dodge/Cummins engine with P-7100 ; Hopefully it's of some help .
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Old 08-09-2022, 02:50 PM   #5
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Thanks Skip and I knew that you meant the 8.3c. Iím going to try and work on it a bit tomorrow in the campground we are staying at now. I will post what I find afterwards.
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Old 08-09-2022, 08:36 PM   #6
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I think we're seeing the same thing, a binding or rubbing. Absent the solenoid, what is there to bind? Mine's still binding closed but the solenoid now has enough pull to open, but I can feel the binding. It's as if it closes past a stop but I don't know of any stop.
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Old 08-09-2022, 08:49 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnhicks View Post
I think we're seeing the same thing, a binding or rubbing. Absent the solenoid, what is there to bind? Mine's still binding closed but the solenoid now has enough pull to open, but I can feel the binding. It's as if it closes past a stop but I don't know of any stop.
The actual fuel shut of is internal in the P-7100 , the solenoid and external linkage turns a shaft that enters the housing to move the internal mechanism .
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Old 08-10-2022, 04:23 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnhicks View Post
I think we're seeing the same thing, a binding or rubbing. Absent the solenoid, what is there to bind? Mine's still binding closed but the solenoid now has enough pull to open, but I can feel the binding. It's as if it closes past a stop but I don't know of any stop.

Well I had some time last night to have a look at it in the dark lol. Mine isn't binding and I don't have power going to the pull up wire with the key on. I can't find a bad fuse so I'm guessing it's the relay which I'm going to have a look for tonight. I have one relay in the front panel inside the coach that isn't marked but it's only a 40 amp relay so I never checked it. After thinking about how the po did some things and finding a jumper wire in there maybe he put that in to get going so I'll check that later as well as have a look in the rear electrical bay.

If anyone knows where that relay might be on my 98 Windsor that would help me a lot since I only seem to get time to work on it in the evenings when I'm usually beat from running around all day in the Jeep trying to show the wife as much as I can in the short time we have here.
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Old 08-10-2022, 10:02 AM   #9
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The relay for the fuel solenoid lift ( pull up ) function , is triggered by a wire from the starter solenoid ( so it's only active when the engine is cranking ) so best guess would be in the engine compartment for the relay location .
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Old 08-10-2022, 10:27 AM   #10
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If your fuel shutoff solenoid is binding you can cut a tiny hole in the rubber cover at the bottom of it and shoot a generous blast of white lithium grease (using the little red straw) into the solenoid chamber. This fixed mine.
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Old 08-10-2022, 09:17 PM   #11
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The original Cummins fuel solenoid part # 391 9422 for the mechanical fuel injected 8.3 engine has a shaft that protrudes out the bottom of the solenoid, this shaft is in 2 pieces which allows it to move in a smooth arc when it is energized. I have noticed that the replacement knock off solenoids have a one piece shaft, the one piece shaft design does not allow the shaft to move smoothly and they tend to bind.

The solution is to find a original Cummins replacement Solenoid and stay away from the knock offs unless they have the 2 piece shaft design.

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Old 08-11-2022, 07:33 PM   #12
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Thanks everyone, I found the relay/solenoid in the rear electrical bay but haven't had time to do anything with it yet. I did however try your trick Roadtrip while we were stopped for lunch and the next time I shut it off it stopped right away. So that was one problem it seems for sure.
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Old 08-13-2022, 06:35 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip426 View Post
The relay for the fuel solenoid lift ( pull up ) function , is triggered by a wire from the starter solenoid ( so it's only active when the engine is cranking ) so best guess would be in the engine compartment for the relay location .
Skip--My vintage 92 Eagle-8.3C All Mechanical-- My fuel solenoid is activated as soon as I turn my Key to the On position. The Key SW activates a remote Solenoid which feeds power to the Red wire (one if 3) on the fuel solenoid. I had a similar start and shutoff issue and it turned out to be that remote solenoid was bad.
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Old 08-14-2022, 04:17 AM   #14
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I was just going to update this post. Funny how different they do things on similar coaches.
My red wire has power as well with the key on which holds the solenoid in the run position but the white wire gets power from the solenoid (ford style) in the rear electrical bay which lifts the plunger when the starter is cranking. I had a bad connection on that solenoid that was the problem and is not fixed. I do think the lithium grease help as well because as soon as I sprayed a little in the boot the slow shutting off disappeared right away.
So thanks everyone, no more weightlifting the rest of the way home (I hope)and new struts are on order for the bed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NHRA225 View Post
Skip--My vintage 92 Eagle-8.3C All Mechanical-- My fuel solenoid is activated as soon as I turn my Key to the On position. The Key SW activates a remote Solenoid which feeds power to the Red wire (one if 3) on the fuel solenoid. I had a similar start and shutoff issue and it turned out to be that remote solenoid was bad.
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