Boost increase on ISC-350 by adjusting wastegate

[Burgy]

What goldenrod are you using the SS mesh element, they say all there filters are rated for 25gpm...

[Mile Marker 42]

Originally Posted by Burgy

What goldenrod are you using the SS mesh element, they say all there filters are rated for 25gpm...

I bought this one: https://ipatools.com/product/fil0000...micron-filter/

[geordi]

Originally Posted by Mile Marker 42

Thought I would share with you what I found and just ordered:-)

Very nice - For my install, I would use that if I needed to move / reposition the Goldenrod a few inches over to the side wall of the compartment (street side bay with the AC radiator in it) b/c the original fuel filter bracket bolted to a horizontal stanchion so the filters were suspended and accessible. The filter head was below the top of the compartment by a bit - not mounted to the ceiling.

I managed to find a picture of the install before the Goldenrod - It is now installed where the brass elbow is hiding behind the pipe and elbow in the foreground, and I've repositioned that pipe and elbow to go up-and-over instead to allow better access. That happened when I replaced the delivery side hose to the engine, which that pipe is. The original hose was steel-encased and very hard to adjust.

[geordi]

Originally Posted by Burgy

What goldenrod are you using the SS mesh element, they say all there filters are rated for 25gpm...

I bought a "40 mesh" to use with the Goldenrod housing - I did not use the filter element it came with, and wasn't planning to anyway. The 40 mesh is rated as 381 micron.... Obviously nothing more than a trash filter, and that's the whole point. Thus far it is working well for this purpose. The rating that FASS has on their filters of 25 gallons per minute.... Would be 1500 gallons per hour, when their pump is rated (at least mine is) at just 160 gallons per hour..... I don't think that spec is needed to be that high!

https://www.amazon.com/GOLDENROD-470...JMPXTREB909AF6

and the filter housing itself: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002YQSQ4...v_ov_lig_dp_it

[Mile Marker 42]

Originally Posted by geordi

I bought a "40 mesh" to use with the Goldenrod housing - I did not use the filter element it came with, and wasn't planning to anyway. The 40 mesh is rated as 381 micron.... Obviously nothing more than a trash filter, and that's the whole point. Thus far it is working well for this purpose. The rating that FASS has on their filters of 25 gallons per minute.... Would be 1500 gallons per hour, when their pump is rated (at least mine is) at just 160 gallons per hour..... I don't think that spec is needed to be that high!

https://www.amazon.com/GOLDENROD-470...JMPXTREB909AF6

and the filter housing itself: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0002YQSQ4...v_ov_lig_dp_it

Yep, pretty much what I have coming. I hope to be done next week and will share pictures. I am only putting the goldenrod on because it is cheap in the whole scheme of things and I want to filter what comes out of the tank before the pump. The link I shared above doesn't show the actual screw on head that comes with the filter housing, but it is included at that price. and looks like the first picture. The 2nd pic is a mount I found that will mount onto the head I bought. I can add an angle bracket and mount the whole thing to the frame or solid surface. I just didn't want it hanging off the pump.

[smav]

I come across this post looking for info on the AG Diesel tuners and spent some spare time over the past few days reading from the beginning to the end of this thread. There is a lot of great info on an engine that kind of is elusive to find any info on and everyone is very respectful in the entire discussion even with different opinions from time to time. I have a 2010 Freightliner M2 Business class with the 8.3L 330hp that I deleted the DPF and EGR on. I installed just a regular bus muffler that I found pretty close to being the same size as the OEM DPF assembly.
I noticed my boost runs around 30 or a few PSI over at times on WOT. I don't have a EGT but plan on getting one but have the same reluctance on the hole drilling and such as some have posted earlier so I may very well take it to a machine shop. Since mine is in a truck it is actually pretty easy to access.

The reason I was looking at the AG Diesel was to add a little more to it to keep the MPH up on hills. It will drop anywhere from 5 to 10 mph pulling a 53' LQ horse trailer and more so on windy days. I don't think it would need much more to get it to hold whatever MPH I am at on hills but like others I was worried about burning it down. I am glad to have learned what I have about the boost and cooling affect it has on EGTs because like Vanwill I was hesitate to add fuel due to EGT limitations. I am very familiar with the duramax and tuning them but there are not many folks out there that I believe have the real first hand experience on the cummins ISC 8.3L in trucks or RVs, until I came across this group. Not really sure if I got the boost that high prior to the delete or after as I think I got my ScanguageD about the time I did the delete. I also had called Cummins and they said that the 330hp was the max for my engine. And others have said that it all depends on the Critical Parts List. I made the comment previously on another post that I could not believe that Cummins would spend the time and money to make custom built parts for the various HP sizes of the same cubic inch engine. I figure they do it all through programming on the ECM.
I have heard the AG Diesel modules called "foolers" and I do not claim to know how they work but I would venture to guess they are very close to the Edge and BullyDog tuners that come with canned tunes for your application. The guy who did my delete stated that a custom software update would be better, which it may but, just like with the Edge tuners in my Duramaxes you can revert back to stock if need be on AG Diesel without having the programmer stop by the shop to hook up his laptop.


My other concern is my allison 3000HS 4th gen which if I have it right is limited at around 1200lbs on torque and HP is really not a concern as far as what the 8.3 ISC can put out max so even with ad AG D module it shouldn't overpower the transmission.
They told me the 12200 was the part number I would need for my motor.


Anyway if anyone has any other feed back or comments I would appreciate any advice.
Thanks again to all who contributed to this particular thread, you all covered a lot of good topics and points all in one spot on the 8.3.


One other thing I have noticed is that the truck seems to maintain speed better when it is on Cruise Control versus when I run the throttle. Even when I go to merge on to the interstate if I put the peddle to the metal you can feel it accelerate even more if you hit the resume on the cruise and let it do the rest.

[nehog]

Originally Posted by smav

...
One other thing I have noticed is that the truck seems to maintain speed better when it is on Cruise Control versus when I run the throttle. Even when I go to merge on to the interstate if I put the peddle to the metal you can feel it accelerate even more if you hit the resume on the cruise and let it do the rest.

I think many of us have seen this. THe cruise control seems to be able to apply more power than the accelerator. I've found however, if I manually downshift that helps greatly.

[geordi]

I still am wary of the idea of cheater chips like the Ag-Diesel or the TS Performance MP8, but I got a silly deal on an MP8 so I picked that up for a test. I haven't had a chance to install it yet.

My engine DOES have an EGT on it now, although I am debating whether I want to move it from the #6 outlet area to somewhere close to the turbo's inlet to see if that changes the temperature readings at all. While towing my Jeep, and on the hills of Virginia, it was running below 1000 degrees and around 23-24psi with the wastegate completely disconnected. As far as I can tell it is fully closed b/c the spring tension is insanely strong - I don't see HOW that little tube ever could have forced open that spring! I can't even budge it with my arms and tools.

Since I already have a baseline as it is, I plan to see about disconnecting the muffler first (I plan to buy an Aero at some point soon) and do a quick run with it just open, then add the MP8 and test again with and without the muffler. I don't *think* there is a restriction in the muffler.... But what do I know?

The wiring will be extended to the dashboard so I can try their little knob system. I'm intrigued to see how that module performs.

For anyone with the Ag-Diesel module... Have you installed an EGT? What kind of temperatures are you seeing? My concern is using the RV for pulling a cargo trailer that likely will have about 5k of stuff in it (so 7k load) and whether or not the RV will feel like it has the power to deal with that. Thus far the heaviest things pulled have all been around 7k (car trailer with SUV on top, 4300 lb jeep with 1700lb cargo trailer behind) and the RV has felt like it is near the limits.

For a coach with a larger engine (usually the ISB would have been specified) and a 10k tow rating... That seems disappointing. The 6.5 mpg while towing is also very disappointing. Research continues.

[Vanwill]

Originally Posted by geordi

For anyone with the Ag-Diesel module... Have you installed an EGT? What kind of temperatures are you seeing? My concern is using the RV for pulling a cargo trailer that likely will have about 5k of stuff in it (so 7k load) and whether or not the RV will feel like it has the power to deal with that. Thus far the heaviest things pulled have all been around 7k (car trailer with SUV on top, 4300 lb jeep with 1700lb cargo trailer behind) and the RV has felt like it is near the limits.

I had plans to install the Ag Solutions chip on my engine, but wanted to verify EGT first. On my bone-stock ISC-350 with EGT gage installed very close to the turbo inlet, I could easily see 1450* under heavy load and engine RPM about 1750. That was my only reason for increasing boost--to lower EGT. It worked.

You will find, once you install the EGT gage AT THE TURBO INLET, that in totally stock condition you can far exceed the 1200* that many consider a max. Once you have the gauge, you will quickly learn how to minimize your EGT by managing throttle position and engine RPM. It is quite a learning experience. After adding the Ag Solutions chip along with increased boost, my EGT remains about the same as stock.

Based on some of the posts here, placing your EGT probe at a location other than at the turbo inlet gives a significantly lower EGT reading.

I SUSPECT (do not KNOW) that Banks' replaced the turbos with higher capacity units so that they could maintain higher boost at lower engine RPM and provide more of a safety margin in EGT.

[zmotorsports]

Originally Posted by Vanwill

I had plans to install the Ag Solutions chip on my engine, but wanted to verify EGT first. On my bone-stock ISC-350 with EGT gage installed very close to the turbo inlet, I could easily see 1450* under heavy load and engine RPM about 1750. That was my only reason for increasing boost--to lower EGT. It worked.

You will find, once you install the EGT gage AT THE TURBO INLET, that in totally stock condition you can far exceed the 1200* that many consider a max. Once you have the gauge, you will quickly learn how to minimize your EGT by managing throttle position and engine RPM. It is quite a learning experience. After adding the Ag Solutions chip along with increased boost, my EGT remains about the same as stock.

Based on some of the posts here, placing your EGT probe at a location other than at the turbo inlet gives a significantly lower EGT reading.

I SUSPECT (do not KNOW) that Banks' replaced the turbos with higher capacity units so that they could maintain higher boost at lower engine RPM and provide more of a safety margin in EGT.

I can confirm Van's findings on his stock ISC that mirror my ISL that EGT's are relatively high as programmed by Cummins. At approx. 24 psi boost, high load and around 1700-1800 RPM my EGT's were getting higher than I prefer at just under 1400*. I installed a boost fooler and am in the process of "tweaking" it to get my boost up somewhere closer to 30~ish psi and hopefully my EGT's down to around 1250* max.

[geordi]

Interesting results on the EGT versus placement. I know for certain that AFTER the turbo would be significantly lower in readings.... But logically I would think that the individual port placement and very close to the exhaust manifold (where I have mine is probably less than 3" from the valve itself) should be relatively close to the same reading as anywhere else in the exhaust manifold side.

But now I'm curious so I will attempt to reposition it at the collector / turbo flange area if I can get a good spot to drill. I wasn't crazy about drilling the manifold before, but I've now done it several times (on other engines) so I'm getting more confident in the procedure.

I will plug that other hole with a brass plug and see what the numbers change to. A 400 degree difference would be very surprising indeed.

[Vanwill]

Originally Posted by geordi

Interesting results on the EGT versus placement. I know for certain that AFTER the turbo would be significantly lower in readings.... But logically I would think that the individual port placement and very close to the exhaust manifold (where I have mine is probably less than 3" from the valve itself) should be relatively close to the same reading as anywhere else in the exhaust manifold side.

But now I'm curious so I will attempt to reposition it at the collector / turbo flange area if I can get a good spot to drill. I wasn't crazy about drilling the manifold before, but I've now done it several times (on other engines) so I'm getting more confident in the procedure.

I will plug that other hole with a brass plug and see what the numbers change to. A 400 degree difference would be very surprising indeed.

Geordi, I understand your hesitations about chips from the drilling process. Mike and I and countless others have been very careful to minimize that possibility. There are several options--vacuums and vacuuming around a shroud on the drill, applying heavy grease to the drill and the tap, and slightly pressurizing the exhaust manifold. Drilling a small pilot hole first will make it easier to detect when you are about to break through, and you can stop to apply more grease to the drill.

Since you already have one tapping, you could easily supply compressed air to the exhaust manifold through that existing tapping. NO, it will not develop any significant pressure because of all the leakage paths, but it would provide a slight positive pressure to blow chips out of the hole. And as I and others have done, you can fish around in through the hole with a magnet. Both times when I used the magnet idea, I retrieved almost nothing. In reality, I think the risk is slight, judging from how many folks have successfully done the procedure.

One caveat--although even a 1/8 NPT tap is quite rugged, in 99% of the cases of a hobbyist breaking a tap, it is due to the tap not being perfectly aligned along its axis with the drilled hole. Although it is certainly best to drill a hole perfectly perpendicular to the surface, if it is off SLIGHTY that is OK, AS LONG AS the tap follows the drilled hole. After drilling, insert the drill by hand into the drilled hole to judge what its axis is and tap accordingly. The longer the tap handle you can use, the easier it is to tap the hole straight. Check the depth of your NPT tap by inserting the fitting you plan to use when you are about 10 threads out of the hole with the tap. Most NPT taps come to "gage" depth somewhere between 5-8 threads out of the hole.

And DO NOT drill the hole in the middle of the section joining the turbo. On most exhaust manifolds, there is a rib running down the middle. You want to drill on either side of center as close to turbo as reasonably possible.

Let us know the difference in EGT readings you get. I have recently become suspicious of the accuracy of some of the installations that require a long run of Type K thermocouple wire. I think the accuracy of the "amplifier type" EGT gages is likely much better. The types with long runs of Type K wire are subject to lots of induced problems. The non-amplified versions are measuring a tiny millivolt signal over a long length of wire. They probably are more accurate in short runs as you might find on a Cummins-powered Dodge pickup.

[geordi]

Originally Posted by Vanwill

Let us know the difference in EGT readings you get. I have recently become suspicious of the accuracy of some of the installations that require a long run of Type K thermocouple wire. I think the accuracy of the "amplifier type" EGT gages is likely much better. The types with long runs of Type K wire are subject to lots of induced problems. The non-amplified versions are measuring a tiny millivolt signal over a long length of wire. They probably are more accurate in short runs as you might find on a Cummins-powered Dodge pickup.

Thanks - the tapping or chips wasn't the concern as much as the potential to crack a cast iron piece. The tip about the webbing in the middle of the turbo manifold though is helpful, I had forgotten about that.

The gauge I bought is this one - which does say it has a K-type probe. I'm using high quality wire to bring it to the front.... But I'd be open to suggestions on a different one. I do have another gauge available at the moment, maybe for giggles I will wire that up temporarily in the #6 port and have someone watch it in the back to tell me what it is reading to compare. I don't THINK there's a difference in reading with 40' of added wire, b/c the idle reading is still around 400 which I expected.

[zmotorsports]

Originally Posted by geordi

Thanks - the tapping or chips wasn't the concern as much as the potential to crack a cast iron piece. The tip about the webbing in the middle of the turbo manifold though is helpful, I had forgotten about that.

The gauge I bought is this one - which does say it has a K-type probe. I'm using high quality wire to bring it to the front.... But I'd be open to suggestions on a different one. I do have another gauge available at the moment, maybe for giggles I will wire that up temporarily in the #6 port and have someone watch it in the back to tell me what it is reading to compare. I don't THINK there's a difference in reading with 40' of added wire, b/c the idle reading is still around 400 which I expected.

I used an AutoMeter extension module (5257) that accepts the standard K-style probe and then uses standard 16 -gauge wire ran up to the cockpit mounted gauge. I feel it is a must to get accurate readings similar to what Van posted. There is a voltage drop running that long of a distance and with such small voltages being used in gauge wiring anyways, this compounds the voltage drop and affects readings. The gauge manufactures calculate in the actual resistance which is why in the instructions they state to not add or subtract length from the probe wires. The extension module works perfectly.

Here is a link to the one I used, but I'm sure there are others.
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/atm-5257