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Old 08-27-2014, 07:13 AM   #1
JDD
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Angry Boost/no boost

I have a 5.9L Cummins ISB with Banks Stinger package powering my 2001 Discovery. Will run great for miles then all of a sudden there will be little or no boost. Usually while climbing a grade. Loss of power to the extent that sometimes it will gear down. Then after creeping along for a while the boost will kick in and she will run OK. This will occur a couple or three times then she will run fine for 50 to 100 miles before it reoccurs. In extreme cases there is a severe loss of power. In other cases the boost will only come back to 50 or 60%. Have trouble shot with Banks numerous times. They have reflashed the module and have also replaced the module. I have replaced the lift pump with no change in symptoms. Cannot determine if this problem is related to the Banks system or to some other issue. Next step is to disconnect the Banks and run stock to see if the symptoms continue. Has anyone experienced this or have any advice on what to trouble shoot?? Very frustrating!
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Old 08-27-2014, 08:14 AM   #2
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The boost is completely controlled by fuel. The more fuel, the more boost. Your problem sounds like either a loose connection (ECM, IP, or harness) or possibly even your IP failing. It is possible for a programmer to fail and have things act strange. I saw one that after a few seconds running it would have a dead pedal and keep running even with the key out of the ignition. Unplugged the programmer and back to normal!
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Old 08-27-2014, 09:29 PM   #3
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Check your lift pump fuel pressure.
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Old 08-27-2014, 09:42 PM   #4
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I lost boost due to a leaky loose intercooler connection. Check all pipe and rubber connection from the turbo to the intercooler to the intake
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Old 08-27-2014, 09:50 PM   #5
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You say it usually happens on hills. Is it possible that the EGT is getting too high and the Banks setup is dialing back the fuel to save the engine?
That's what happens on our ISC with the full Power Pack setup.
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Old 08-27-2014, 10:00 PM   #6
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You say it usually happens on hills. Is it possible that the EGT is getting too high and the Banks setup is dialing back the fuel to save the engine?
That's what happens on our ISC with the full Power Pack setup.
This sounds like what I was thinking. I am not sure exactly what your system monitors, but if EGT is getting too high it seems very logical the computer will lower fuel until temps fall to safe level. Too high of EGT for too long equals damaged engine.
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Old 08-28-2014, 12:04 AM   #7
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I agree, as others have said, that you may have an EGT problem. Do you have an EGT gauge on your setup? If so, what are your readings as power drops. As I recall, anything over 1300 degrees for more than a short time will cause the Banks system to restrict the fuel and adjust itself accordingly. Kinda sounds like what's going on here.
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Old 08-28-2014, 05:59 AM   #8
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Angry EGT

Thanks for the replies. I do have an ETG that came with the Banks Stinger, but after trouble shooting with the Banks engineer he determined the module was sending an incorrect signal to the gauge and advised it be disconnected. But even when it was working properly the gauge would flutter long before it got to the higher temps followed by the boost going away. If I totally disconnect the Banks and run stock it seems I could determine if the issue is Banks related. I have also been told by Banks they no longer service or provide parts for my setup. So if it is the Banks I guess I need to move on to a different program???
The reply about a bad connection seems logical the way this has acted. Will try checking connections and a total Banks disconnect and see if we can identify the issue. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
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Old 08-28-2014, 12:28 PM   #9
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Thanks for the replies. I do have an ETG that came with the Banks Stinger, but after trouble shooting with the Banks engineer he determined the module was sending an incorrect signal to the gauge and advised it be disconnected. But even when it was working properly the gauge would flutter long before it got to the higher temps followed by the boost going away. If I totally disconnect the Banks and run stock it seems I could determine if the issue is Banks related. I have also been told by Banks they no longer service or provide parts for my setup. So if it is the Banks I guess I need to move on to a different program???
The reply about a bad connection seems logical the way this has acted. Will try checking connections and a total Banks disconnect and see if we can identify the issue. Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
Your comments are most interesting to me re a fluctuating EGT gauge. Last year I fought a fluctuating EGT gauge, although I can't be absolutely certain that it affected the system boost (mine is a 350 ISC with Banks PowerPack). I worked with the Banks tech support folks and ran a number of their suggested diagnostics....with no success. It was pointing toward a faulty exhaust thermocouple and/or a wiring issue between the thermocouple and the gauge. They said that either of these issues could affect the Ottomind computer and vehicle performance.

I contacted Hewitt Industries of L.A. (large manu of thermocouples, gauges, etc.....714 891-9300). Their tech support was extremely helpful. I purchased a new thermocouple....which did not fix my problem. At Hewitt's suggestion, I then returned the new thermocouple as well as my EGT gauge to them for evalutation and bench testing. Both components passed.....and they didn't even charge me except for return shipping. Based upon their testing, their tech guy concluded that I had a wiring issue on that part of the system. I agreed....and hoped that it was not the 2 year-old Ottomind that I had replaced previously.

I then inspected and tested all wiring and connections between the Ottomind, the thermocouple and the gauge. I used a standard 12V test light and a fully-charged motorcycle battery for 12V power, testing the wiring on both the EGT circuit AND the boost circuit...and, presto, there was my problem. Turned out to be an intermittent power loss at one or more of the connections or wires within the EGT/thermocouple/gauge system. After testing various wires, I replaced some of the wires and all of the connections within that system as well as several others nearby....also securing the looms better from the incredible heat and viabration in the engine compartment.

This year, the system continues to operate properly, both boost AND EGT. Was the fix tedious? Yes. Was it time consuming? Yes. Was it worth it? Absolutely! Since Banks no longer services my system, I pray the Ottomind will continue to do its thing.

Sorry for the long post, but maybe my experience will provide you some additional thoughts on what may be affecting your system. Hope it helps!

Please let us know what you find out. It will help others. Thanks!
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Old 08-29-2014, 02:37 PM   #10
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Smile Boost/No Boost

HeapBigEngin,

Thanks for your comments, your description fits my issue to a T. I am going to have my mechanic run your tests, but I think you are on to something with the wiring. (I can't get into the engine compartment to work on it. I had my knees replaced a couple of years ago and can't kneel on them or bend them far enough to get in there at the system.) There were times when my system would go out, the boost and EGT gauges would drop to zero and if I would hit a bump in the road everything would come back on and work OK for many miles. All suggesting loose connections or bad wiring.

After testing I had replaced the thermocoupler at Banks suggestion but the new one didn't fix the problem either. Again suggesting a wiring issue. When Banks advised they could no longer service your system did they provide any alternatives? I also replaced the Ottomind 2 1/2 years ago and when I sent the old one back they tested it and it was OK. But they didn't tell me that until I pressed them about it this summer while running some more of their tests.

This has been an issue for me since shortly after I installed the system in 2008. I have always thought that Banks was an industry leader in this area, but now have my concerns. And if my Ottomind goes out I don't know where to turn next. The performance with the system is great when working properly.

Thanks again for your insights, very helpful in directing me toward a resolution.
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Old 08-29-2014, 07:29 PM   #11
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I have the Banks Powerpack system, also. Had a little problem with engine, cutting back and so took it to Cummins, and when they put it on the diagnostics, and said it was pin 11 on the harness into the ECM. I pulled the plug and cleaned and lubed them with dielectric grease, and have not experienced any more problems. I am concerned that Banks has not do anything to address the Ottomind problem.
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Old 08-30-2014, 02:36 AM   #12
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Quote:
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HeapBigEngin,

Thanks for your comments, your description fits my issue to a T. I am going to have my mechanic run your tests, but I think you are on to something with the wiring. (I can't get into the engine compartment to work on it. I had my knees replaced a couple of years ago and can't kneel on them or bend them far enough to get in there at the system.) There were times when my system would go out, the boost and EGT gauges would drop to zero and if I would hit a bump in the road everything would come back on and work OK for many miles. All suggesting loose connections or bad wiring.

After testing I had replaced the thermocoupler at Banks suggestion but the new one didn't fix the problem either. Again suggesting a wiring issue. When Banks advised they could no longer service your system did they provide any alternatives? I also replaced the Ottomind 2 1/2 years ago and when I sent the old one back they tested it and it was OK. But they didn't tell me that until I pressed them about it this summer while running some more of their tests.

This has been an issue for me since shortly after I installed the system in 2008. I have always thought that Banks was an industry leader in this area, but now have my concerns. And if my Ottomind goes out I don't know where to turn next. The performance with the system is great when working properly.

Thanks again for your insights, very helpful in directing me toward a resolution.
You are more than welcome re my comments. Hope they are helping...

Based upon your above comments, it sounds very similiar to the problem I faced. I think you are on the right track re a wiring/connection issue, most likely back in the engine compartment rather than up at the gauges. When the Banks system is installed, the wiring loom hookups and individual wire hookups are pretty straight forward....but there are quite a few connections that have to be made. And these connections over time with vibration and heat can deteriorate....along with the wires as well.

Sorry to hear you can't get in there yourself. FWIW, my experience proved to me that one must take whatever time is necessary to adequately test the wires and connections.....a strictly visual approach will not work. And one cannot assume anything.....that is formula for frustration, believe me. In my case (which may NOT be the same situation as yours!), the problem lay within the wires and/or the connections in the engine compartment between the Ottomind and both of the gauges. If you think this may be worth pursuing to solve your problem, it is imperative to run 12V (I used a motorcycle battery) through all those wires and connections between the Ottomind and the gauges. This will require you to dismount the gauges (not a big deal) and use your test light to see that power is coming through. I ran 12V in both directions....if that makes sense. I also did "wiggle tests" of the wires and connections with the 12V in place....and that's how I found my problem. This will take time and attention to do....but, as I said earlier, it is well worth it! I replaced several wires and just about all of the connections involved.

Hopefully you have the installation manual. If not, you should be able to download it from Banks. Have your guy check and double check the connections at the thermocouple AND the one at the fuel injection pump....just as a precaution.

When I replaced my Ottomind, I also replaced the main wiring harness at Banks' suggestion because they said that they had had some issues in the past.....gave me good price on both. (And my system was installed in 2005....so it is older than yours.) Thus when my EGT acted up, I was pretty certain that the main harness was not the problem. Not sure if you replaced your harness, but if your problem remains after all of the above testing, etc. you might want to consider your harness. That, however, is probably NOT the problem. Eliminate the other "gremlins" first.

Re Banks comments to me, they discontinued my system AFTER I had replaced the Ottomind and harness. I likely purchased one of the last ones they had....whew! And their tech guys were very helpful in trying to help me solve my EGT problem. And I understand why some/all manufacturers get to the point where they can no longer support a certain product. It happens, that's all.

Again, sorry for the rambling post. But, believe me, I understand your frustration, and that is why I am providing the details that I am. Best of luck, and don't let the bugger get ya' down! It's well worth the fight!
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Old 08-30-2014, 07:19 PM   #13
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No doubt you have checked the fuel supply solenoid, filter etc. What does the exhaust look like when this is happening? Smoke? Hard to see unless someone is following but can be an indicator.
Waste gate?
Just a few thoughts.
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Old 09-29-2014, 06:22 AM   #14
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Boost/No Boost

I disconnected the Banks System and ran a 100 mile test run. The rig ran OK.
I have now been on a week long trip with four separate legs through mountainous terrain as well as flat lands along the east coast. I have had no problems similar to what I had previously experienced. The only thing I noticed was an increase in temperature as I pulled longer grades or hills. I stabilized the temp increase by gearing down and maintaining a 2500 or so rpm range. Otherwise the rig ran fine. Any suggestions on the temp issue?

Seems the problem is with the Ottomind module or the wiring and/or connections. My thought now is to remove the Bank System along with its wiring harness and send it all back to Banks for bench testing if they would agree to do that. Any thoughts?
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