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Old 05-04-2014, 08:36 PM   #1
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Check Engine/Stop Engine Lights

We have a Cummins ISB 245 in our MH and Barb and I were following Old Route 66 when, about 40 miles east of Amerillo, we got a check engine light followed by the stop engine light. I check the fluid levels and all were ok so started the old girl up and away we went, followed shortly by the lights again. In order to limp it to where we would have a place to park, I repeatedly shut it down and restarted it.

During these restarts, sometimes the trotlle would not respond nor wound the cruirse allow high ideal. Once parked there was no response at all from the trottle and if it idealed for a few minutes the check and stop lights would come on.

Yes, I know IF I wasn't so cheap and had bought a scan gauge I would know what the codes are. We got Good Sam to tow us to the Cummin's shop here in Amerillo so at least we are not on the road. My question. is has this happened to anyone or does anyone have an idea as to what it might be?

My ideas are either fuel pressure, lift pump, injection pump or ECU. Am I thinking in the right direction?

Any help or ideas are welcome as I would really like to have a better idea before Cummin's get there paws on it.

Thanking you in advance.
Tom and Barb
2000 Bounder 39Z
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Old 05-04-2014, 09:58 PM   #2
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Two things that might turn these lights on would be low coolant not high enough to cover the sensor, or, plugged fuel filters.
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Old 05-04-2014, 10:09 PM   #3
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We had the similar problem with our 2013 Berkshire.
Called Coach-net and they had the rig towed to a repair facility.
Long story short, it was the throttle positioning switch went bad.
Hope this helps to some degree.
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Old 05-05-2014, 12:01 PM   #4
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Been off the wifi grid since last night.

krivanj,
Thanks for your reply, have already checked coolant level, it is above the low sensor and the filters have recently been changed. When this started it didn't feel like a filter issue--been though those many times in the past.

donie,
Thanks for your reply, when your throttle positioning switch went bad, did it cause the check or stop engine lights to come on? This morning, since Cummin's isn't able to get to us til Wednesday, I was thinking of moving the MH, when I started it, the check engine light came on, but the throttle was responsive, so I'm bewildered.

If any one has any other ideas, please let us know.

Thank You
Tom and Barb
2000 Bounder 39Z
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Old 05-05-2014, 12:19 PM   #5
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Here's a list of big truck repair shops in Amarillo. I can't recommend any one of the them but you can at least make some calls.

I was in the same situation (Cummins and FCCC with long wait times) in Casper, WY and found that a oil rig support company (Stuart & Stevenson) would look at it the next day and we were on the the road the following afternoon. If its a pure engine problem, Peterbilt may still help you out too.

Good luck!


West Texas Peterbilt

8000 I-40 E

Amarillo, TX

806-373-5444





West Texas Peterbilt Truck Co

8000 I-40 E

Amarillo, TX

800-692-4719

24 Hour Service



Rogers Truck Repair

900 S Roberts

Amarillo, TX

806-373-0692



Petro Stopping Center

I-40 Exit 75@Lakeside Dr

Amarillo, TX

806-372-3698

24 Hour Service



Tow Brothers Equipment

4418 Interstate Expwy E

Amarillo, TX

806-376-5486



York Truck Enterprises Inc

4101 E 25th Ave

Amarillo, TX

806-374-3838



Cummins Southern Plains

5224 I-40 East Exit 73

Amarillo, TX

806-373-3793

24 Hour Road Service



W & H Truck & Trailer Repair

3801 E 22nd Ave

Amarillo, TX

806-374-5422

24 Hour Road Service



Roberts Truck Center

4354 Canyon Dr

Amarillo, TX

806-355-9771

Road Service



Alonco Truck & Trailer

4250 E Loop 335 N

Amarillo, TX

806-381-8844



Warren Cat Trk Engine Svc

1101 S FM 1912

Amarillo, TX

806-335-1511

Road Service



Amarillo East Travel Center

I-40 & FM 1912 Exit 81

Amarillo, TX

806-335-2841



Amarillo West Travel Center

I-40 & Whitaker Exit 74

Amarillo, TX

806-342-3080

24 Hour Service



Amarillo Thermo King Inc

I-40 Exit 73

Amarillo, TX

806-376-5837

24 Hour Service



Amarillo Truck Center Inc

2210 Whitaker Rd

Amarillo, TX

800-753-1556

24 Hour Service



Doctor Detroit

550 N Lakeside Loop 335

Amarillo, TX

806-371-0202



High Plains Tire & Diesel Svc

10807 I-40 E Exit 77

Amarillo, TX

806-335-3211

24 Hour Road Service
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Old 05-06-2014, 08:40 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tnrvers View Post
Been off the wifi grid since last night.



donie,
Thanks for your reply, when your throttle positioning switch went bad, did it cause the check or stop engine lights to come on? This morning, since Cummin's isn't able to get to us til Wednesday, I was thinking of moving the MH, when I started it, the check engine light came on, but the throttle was responsive, so I'm bewildered.

If any one has any other ideas, please let us know.

Thank You
Tom and Barb
2000 Bounder 39Z

Yes it did, Biggest problem was Cummins ran a check and found where the problem was but couldn't repair because they said it was a Freightliner problem.
Hope your is an easy repair.
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Old 05-06-2014, 09:03 AM   #7
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Cummins , TPS, has a built in redundant feature; it is actually 2 TPSs in one housing, the Engine Control Module wants to see signals from both TPSs that agree with how much throttle your asking for. If the ECM, sees only one signal you get the check engine light , but you still get throttle response , if the ECM gets conflicting signals from the 2 you get , check & stop engine, and no response, no signal from either ,( ECM wants to see a minimum voltage from the TPS's ) you get check & stop engine lights .
Look for wiring from the throttle pedal to the dash wiring harness, make sure the connections are secure.
After that you need to see what codes are in the ECM.
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Old 05-06-2014, 02:28 PM   #8
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Skip426

Thanks for your reply, here is the latest.
Yesterday evening was able to get the ECM code (141) via the check end and ideal switched under the dash. Code 141 is low voltage at the oil pressure sensor.
This morning the shop said we might be looking at Thursday morning getting in. So I called Cummin’s Customer Care and after explaining everything, the tech said, since code 143 and 453(?) were not being displayed, more than likely the oil pressure sensor.

I purchased one here at the shop and to my surprise, my old style has been replaced by a “single pin switch” from the “3 pin sensor”. Yep, you guessed it, once the new one is installed Cummin’s has to reprogram the ECM.

If anyone has info for an aftermarket replacement for the old sensor on the ISB please let me know. Heading out to find a socket that will fit, so I can remove the sensor and get the old P/N.

Again any help on this issue is appreciated.

Tom and Barb--Still Boondockin' in the Cummin's lot Amarillo, TX
2000 Bounder 39Z
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Old 05-06-2014, 05:01 PM   #9
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I believe when you switch to the new style pressure sending unit, one of the wires gets moved to a new pin on the ECM and the ECM has to be programed for the new style switch which is basically an on - off switch. I also think that if the tech that reprograms the ECM does not do it correctly you can loose your milage stored in the ECM.
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Old 05-06-2014, 05:19 PM   #10
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Randy,
Thanks for the info, it appears as if that is exactly what has to be done.

Tom and Barb
2000 Bounder 39Z
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Old 05-13-2014, 01:33 PM   #11
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Sorry for the delay in posting the outcome. Once we got on the road Friday afternoon, we wanted to leave Amarillo in our dust. Nothing against Amarillo, but the condition for our lengthy visit was not by choice. We are now in Santa Fe, New Mexico without internet accessibility in our RV so we are back at the local McDonalds.

OK, for the bloody details, as it turned out to be the worst of all things.

After being towed to the Cummin’s Amarillo shop last Sunday afternoon and sitting there all day Monday with the prospect of not getting into the shop until Thursday, I got serious trying to find why the check and stop engine lights were coming on. So, with some information gained from another forum, Monday evening I found out where and how to use the “check engine and ideal” switches located under the dash and found that fault code 141 was why the engine was shutting down. Fault code 141 is no communication from the oil pressure sensor to the ECM.

On Tuesday, the outlook for getting in was still Thursday, so after checking to be sure the sensor was getting voltage, I went into the parts counter to purchase one and found that my sensor, having three pins, had been replaced by a switch, having one pin. Installing this new one pin switch requires Cummin’s to reprogram the ECM, so I would have to wait anyway and I was unable to find an after-market three pin sensor.

As a pleasant surprise, early Wednesday morning the MH went into the shop and after plugging in the only code they got was code 141 and no secondary codes. After testing the circuits, the old three pin sensor was replaced by the one pin switch and the ECM reprogramed. At which time we then got the check engine light and code 364, a communication issue between the VP44 pump and the ECM. Wednesday afternoon and Thursday morning was spent trying to diagnose that 364 code.

After following the Cummin’s trouble shooting guide (I downloaded the guide and read a lot of material on the internet to assure myself they weren’t blindly preceding) the tech concluded the problem was the circuits of the VP44 pump with something less than total certainty. That less than total certainty caused concern, if it was the ECM and not the VP44 what then? If that happened Cummin’s would reinstall my pump and I would only pay the labor and they ordered an ECM to have on hand the next day just in case. The VP44 was on hand and they could have it installed by early Friday morning, so that is what was decided should be done.

Come Friday morning, you guessed it, once the VP44 pump was installed the 364 code was still there. Having received the ECM, they installed and programed it and the 364 code didn’t activate. So, true to their word, the old VP44 was plugged in and the code reappeared.

So what happened? I found in all the reading I did, that there are a small amount of VP44 failures not related to a lift pump failure or low flow. These failures are related to normal engine heat that follows shut down, that is when the VP44 circuits see their highest temps (except in the case of a lift pump failure.) This small percentage of heat related failures has no fix and the folks at Blue Chip Diesel have done some research trying to displace that heat but haven’t been able to do it effectively as of yet. It appears we had one of those heat failures, since our lift pump was working properly there isn’t another reason. And, when the circuit failed in the VP44 it also damage the circuit in the ECM (this doesn’t always happen).

We do need to put a good word in for Cummin’s of Amarillo. They sat down and did a realistic evaluation of their labor and shaved almost $500 off the labor total. That, coupled with the 10 percent we get for being members of the Power Club, made the bill costing only an arm, since they wouldn’t accept our first born as payment.

One word of advice to anyone willing to listen: Because of the cost of the VP44 and the ECM, get and install a lift pump monitoring kit, they are available, just Google them . While it probably wouldn’t have prevented our failure, it will inform you of the most common cause, lift pump low flow or total failure.

Barb and I want to thank everyone who tried to help us during this ordeal.

Tom and Barb
2000 Bounder 39Z
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Old 05-31-2014, 12:39 PM   #12
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Many thanks to you and Barb for sharing your experience! My coach has been at Cummins for 3 weeks undergoing fuel management tests and diagnostics to solve the identical problem you have described. I will share your experience and solution--and hopefully reclaim our coach ASAP.
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Old 10-03-2018, 07:31 AM   #13
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This is quite a saga. I have codes 391 and 364. I'm hoping I don't have to go down the same road you did. That sounds terrible. So what your saying in your post is that once the new ecm came in with the new pump you were fine. When you plugged in the old pump it took out the ecm again!!! So you needed a second ecm? Do you remember what the cost of an ecm is?
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