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Old 05-06-2021, 07:29 PM   #1
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Coolant analysis on pre sale inspection. Thoughts?

Weíre in the process of buying a 2016 Newmar Dutch Star. 26,000 miles. The oil analyses came back OK but the coolant on both the engine and generator are out of spec. Any thoughts on cause and the price for a flush and refill?
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Old 05-06-2021, 07:36 PM   #2
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Coolant analysis on pre sale inspection. Thoughts?

Is this a freightliner or Spartan chassis? I believe Freightliner still uses conventional coolant NOT OAT type, donít know about Spartan. Call to confirm which type of coolant was installed, the analysis wonít be correct if the type of coolant is not known.

Where and how was the sample drawn? I think this can also affect the analysis. Was the engine run before the sample was taken? Was it taken from the overflow tank or radiator?

I think 5 year replacement of coolant is always recommended anyway, so if you buy it, that would be first thing to do along with, oil, oil filter, fuel filters, power steering fluid flush, etc to establish a baseline.
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Old 05-06-2021, 07:45 PM   #3
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It’s a Freightliner chassis.
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Old 05-07-2021, 06:54 PM   #4
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Coolant analysis on pre sale inspection. Thoughts?

I canít tell you to buy or not buy, but we spent two years searching for the right coach and I never found a single one that had the coolant correctly maintained. The coach we bought, a 2015 Phaeton with the ISL 9, coolant analysis was a lot worse than your test results. I spoke to a couple of people online, one who had the liners fail and one who had the same mileage as mine when I bought it who had just as bad an analysis because his SCA levels were never checked even though he had paid Freightliner to check it during his annual maintenance. He found out when he bought some test strips and did his own testing. His motor has been fine a couple of years later. The person who had the liner failure had it occur at nearly 80k miles, again with no SCA maintenance. Most people are simply not aware this is a maintenance item and the dealers are just as clueless.

For me, the dealer never heard of SCAís or cavitation causing liner pitting. In their defense, they are a fairly small dealer who generally donít deal with diesel coaches. Ours was a trade to a small Class C by the prior owner. I sent the dealer a couple of Cummins documents and the test results. They ended up knocking another $10K off the coach price plus had the local Cummins service center flush and change the coolant. I am now running Fleetguard ES Compleat OAT coolant so I donít have to check the SCAís. This year I had them drain and fill without flushing as a precautionary measure. I also had the dealer have Cummins change the crankcase filter, figuring any coolant seepage through the liners would accumulate on the filter. The filter was very clean. With the additional price reduction, I figured that would pay half of a liner replacement so we rolled the dice and bought the coach.

Not sure this helps you, but we went through something similar and hopefully our experience will help with your decision. If you have any questions let me know.
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Old 05-07-2021, 08:19 PM   #5
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Thanks Vettenuts.

We did a test drive today, the coach performed great. Our sales rep said they will do a flush and re-charge.

It looks like we’ll accept it and monitor.
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Old 05-08-2021, 04:23 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by vettenuts View Post

For me, the dealer never heard of SCAís or cavitation causing liner pitting. In their defense, they are a fairly small dealer who generally donít deal with diesel coaches. Ours was a trade to a small Class C by the prior owner. I sent the dealer a couple of Cummins documents and the test results. They ended up knocking another $10K off the coach price plus had the local Cummins service center flush and change the coolant. I am now running Fleetguard ES Compleat OAT coolant so I donít have to check the SCAís. This year I had them drain and fill without flushing as a precautionary measure. I also had the dealer have Cummins change the crankcase filter, figuring any coolant seepage through the liners would accumulate on the filter. The filter was very clean. With the additional price reduction, I figured that would pay half of a liner replacement so we rolled the dice and bought the coach.

Not sure this helps you, but we went through something similar and hopefully our experience will help with your decision. If you have any questions let me know.

I had my coolant and filter changed at Cummins last fall. They used Fleetguard 50-50 Extended Life ES Compleat Ethylene Glycol (says 1,000,000 mile coolant on the container) and Fleetguard WF2071 (has Chemical Additive DCA4+).
They told me that I still need to use the coolant additive filters.
I did not ask specifically but to me that means I still need to check SCAs to determine what filter to use at the next change, one with additive or one without. I guess I need to go ask again specifically for that.
Lots of conflicting info on these coolant issues.
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Old 05-08-2021, 04:53 AM   #7
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I use the ES Compleat (the blue stuff) in my coach. It’s not an OAT coolant and still has DCA’s. When you first replace it it doesn’t need an additional DCA filter (since it comes precharged), you can use a blank. At the next filter change interval you can use a 2071 or whatever the testing calls for.
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Old 05-08-2021, 05:00 AM   #8
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On my 2013 VTDP when I inquired with Freightliner they told me that eventhough Cummins allows ELC coolants that the FL sensors in the system are not compatible with ELC coolants. They told me to use conventional diesel coolant with SCA and to check per sched at 6 mos. Mine is an ISB without the SCA filter so even more important to monitor. The only good part is ISB is not wet sleeve but other items like water pump benefit from the SCAs.
Mileage is certainly a factor and favorable in your case. Safest route is to do a complete drain & flush, filter change and refill with whatever FL recommends (ignore any Cummins info)
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Old 05-08-2021, 06:29 AM   #9
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On my 2013 VTDP when I inquired with Freightliner they told me that eventhough Cummins allows ELC coolants that the FL sensors in the system are not compatible with ELC coolants. They told me to use conventional diesel coolant with SCA and to check per sched at 6 mos. Mine is an ISB without the SCA filter so even more important to monitor. The only good part is ISB is not wet sleeve but other items like water pump benefit from the SCAs.
Mileage is certainly a factor and favorable in your case. Safest route is to do a complete drain & flush, filter change and refill with whatever FL recommends (ignore any Cummins info)
It's always a good idea to keep up with coolant and routine changes etc. Corrosion inhibitors, ph and freeze points change which cause corrosion, mineral deposits and poor performance.
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Old 05-08-2021, 07:30 AM   #10
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If the coolant you wish to install is Cummins approved it is safe to install. Many mh's have the elc as a factory install. Oil samples on a used mh usually tell you nothing. You don't know the brand or how many miles the oil has been used. Some dealers change the oil so a sample is meaningless . If the seller has previous tests a fresh test is a good idea.
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Old 05-08-2021, 09:55 AM   #11
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If the coolant you wish to install is Cummins approved it is safe to install. Many mh's have the elc as a factory install.
Do a search and read about problems with Freightliner sensors in coolant systems.
Many is not ALL. I will follow Freightliner recommendations but others certainly choose to do as they please. I point out things like this not as an absolute... you must... but rather you might want to check mfg... both engine and chassis as its the chassis mfg that design and installs "systems" like cooling, braking, etc.
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Old 05-09-2021, 07:31 AM   #12
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Freightliner told me about the coolant sensor, but the information was inconsistent. One person told me I might have a problem while another made it sound like the end of the world. I do carry a spare sensor and also made a dummy plug with a resistance the same as the sensor immersed in coolant. I didnít request the coolant be changed to ES Compleat OAT, but the dealer still owned the coach at the time and the Cummins service center put in the Cummins recommended coolant. That was a year ago and last month I had Cummins drain and refill the coolant without flushing. I am still using the ES Compleat OAT.
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