Community Forums

briankstan · 12-10-2021, 07:38 AM

So here is my problem, and I'm hoping there are some people here (Cummins technicians) that can help with Clear info about what is needed.

I Dusted my original Engine due to a fault air filter that had a big hole in in and let a lot of dirt into the engine.

I Ordered a ReCon from Cummin through Freightliner. However there was a mix up in the ordering process and the Engine I received is outfitted slightly different the the original ESN number that was requested.

Original ESN # is 4561772, What I received is Part number: DR1653RX from Cummins.

This is the part that I need help with. Some I have already figured out but it you see any problems with my solution I would appreciate the feedback.

1. Change the CPL to 2030 due to Automatic Transmission software DO9112
2.Change the ECM Calibration to DO9012, FP98067, FR90152 and SC9711
3.Change the crankcase Breather to BR9020 (I know what this one is and I have purchased parts to change the breather to he Fleetguard Open Crankcase Ventelation Kit #CV50117)
Change the Air intake Connection to IC9111
Change the Dipstick to LG9393. (already ordered).
change the cylinder block cover to OB9087 (have Original, and puchased cummins # 3944797 Ito adapt the new breather setup.
Change the ECM to PH9706
Change the wiring harness to WR9092

I need specific assistance on items 1, 2, 4, 7 and 8

Air intake Connection change to IC9111, this shows the Air intake and the air heater, I have the original but not sure if there are any other changes.

Can I use my original ECM and Programming? this plugs into the injection pump and I don't know if anything needs to be done to adjust the timing with the pump and the computer..

Can I swap the wring harness off the original to the new engine?

Can the ECM that is on there is a PH9728, the recommended one is PH9706. What is the difference, can just the programming be changed? If not would there be any issues with putting the original one on the new Engine?

can the programming in items 1 and 2 be done to the new ECM?

Thanks and I appreciate any help you can provide.

CountryB · 12-10-2021, 09:14 AM

Sorry, I can't help with your questions - but wondering - who is responsible for the mixup? If you, then continue resolving the problem. But if Freightliner messed up the order, I would have them fix it (pay for whatever it takes to make it work).

Ljwt330 · 12-10-2021, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CountryB

Sorry, I can't help with your questions - but wondering - who is responsible for the mixup? If you, then continue resolving the problem. But if Freightliner messed up the order, I would have them fix it (pay for whatever it takes to make it work).

I suggest you pursue this path^^.

If I understand your post correctly, the OEM ESN for the dusted engine is 4561772. If ordering a reconditioned engine from any supplier, it will not have that ESN as it is unique to your dusted engine. However, the recon engine should be compatible with your chassis with little, if any modification. As stated in your post, the recon engine was "outfitted differently" than the OEM engine.

You posted that there was a "mix up." If that is the case, it it not your responsibility to "make it work." If the correct recon engine was not supplied by the source, it needs to be returned and the correct one, with whatever ESN it carries, shipped. It is the responsibility of the shop and supplier to get this right.

Now, the wrinkle in all of this is if Cummins does not supply a recon engine that is a plug-and-play to older systems. If this was truly a mix up in orders however, it should be corrected by the parties involved.

briankstan · 12-10-2021, 10:39 AM

yes it was a mix up, however there is a cost associated to the changes that would have needed to have been made. (although this wasn't clear from Cummins on the quote.) Freightliner is working with us to make it right, however they still need the information from Cummins to know what they can do without having to send this thing back and wait another 4 months for it to be resolved.

What we requested was an engine that matched the existing ESN, I know the new one would have a different one, but they should have followed the build for the one provided.

they are willing to do the work and give me the parts and larbor at a reduced cost but of course we (all parties) want to do that in the most economical way possible.

I'm not trying to burn either of them, just want to make sure it's taken care of properly and get it installed.

Ljwt330 · 12-10-2021, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by briankstan

yes it was a mix up, however there is a cost associated to the changes that would have needed to have been made. (although this wasn't clear from Cummins on the quote.) Freightliner is working with us to make it right, however they still need the information from Cummins to know what they can do without having to send this thing back and wait another 4 months for it to be resolved.

What we requested was an engine that matched the existing ESN, I know the new one would have a different one, but they should have followed the build for the one provided.

they are willing to do the work and give me the parts and larbor at a reduced cost but of course we (all parties) want to do that in the most economical way possible.

I'm not trying to burn either of them, just want to make sure it's taken care of properly and get it installed.

Note bold. That is what most people assumed would happen.

The mix-up was at Cummins end or a miscommunication between Freightliner and Cummins. Regardless, if you don't want to wait another four months (and I don't blame you,) then you need to negotiate with the shop as you are doing, to get things up and running.

Given the information posted so far, it comes down to this, IMO. The "most economical" way to get it done differs for each party involved, be that you the customer, Freightliner, or Cummins. As the situation stands, you the customer are getting the "least economical" solution as you are going to pay for an error made between the other two parties.

If the error was a miscommunication in what would be shipped for the price quoted, then offering you cut-rates on parts and labor is palatable. Honest mistakes are often made. If the error was in shipping an incorrect recon engine when a plug-and-play was available, then the offer of part/labor discount is an unnecessary additional expense that you are paying in lieu of waiting for the correct replacement.

Not a comfortable position to be in, but it is your call, obviously.

Kenvb · 12-11-2021, 09:43 AM

i agree with the above..have the dealer you bought it from get the proper motor..it will cost u thousands to change all those things. i have a 5.9 too..but older and not one computor to run it, after hearing the issue with new RVs and the dam computors from my son who spent 5 yrs fixing those. and good friend whose big beautiful Newmar spent more time at the dealer than in his possession.this old RV will do untill we sell it and go back to a Trailer and a Pickup my wife can help drive..

briankstan · 12-13-2021, 07:28 AM

Thanks for your replies.

yes, the mix up was between Freightliner and Cummins, however that would have also changed the price I paid for the additional changes from Cummins. So a discount on the parts and labor needed is acceptable to me.

The hardest part has be trying to figure out what is what and what needs to be done to the ECM. I would prefer to use the new one if possible. Physically they are the same, internally is the question. the pin locations on both are the same.

After some digging and finding the right wiring diagrams for the wiring harness and the Pin locations in the ECM it looks like the existing wiring harness will work fine, we might have to change the connectors, or build a converter plug to go between the Engine and the Coach.

tompands · 12-15-2021, 06:01 PM

I was a Service Manager at Kenworth Trucks for 20 Years. We never had RV chassis's and I know Freightliner does business differently then we did, but You need to get in someone's butt. I know what engines cost , 10 years ago, when I retired. I can only imagine the cost now and the cost of what you are paying. Cummins was always the hardest for me to deal with. They always seemed lazy to me. Probably worse now. Cat, and Detroit were easy to deal with and get what I needed. If you shake their cage a little bit, you'll get some results. Find out the regional managers name for Cummins-give him a call. Sometimes that's all it takes. Raise a little hell. You shouldn't have to be looking up part #'s, worrying about ECM's and engine covers. That's absurd. It would never happen in my shop. Your a paying customer....your job is to drop off, Pay and pick up. If it was a shade tree shop, maybe, not a dealership.

briankstan · 12-16-2021, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tompands

I was a Service Manager at Kenworth Trucks for 20 Years. We never had RV chassis's and I know Freightliner does business differently then we did, but You need to get in someone's butt. I know what engines cost , 10 years ago, when I retired. I can only imagine the cost now and the cost of what you are paying. Cummins was always the hardest for me to deal with. They always seemed lazy to me. Probably worse now. Cat, and Detroit were easy to deal with and get what I needed. If you shake their cage a little bit, you'll get some results. Find out the regional managers name for Cummins-give him a call. Sometimes that's all it takes. Raise a little hell. You shouldn't have to be looking up part #'s, worrying about ECM's and engine covers. That's absurd. It would never happen in my shop. Your a paying customer....your job is to drop off, Pay and pick up. If it was a shade tree shop, maybe, not a dealership.

the hope is that it will not cost me anything more out of pocket than the initial purchase (overall). I am willing to pay a little more as the rep at Freightliner is a friend and did get me a really good deal on the engine over retail. So yes it's a bit of a pain, but as I have said Freightliner (Premire Truck Group) has been the ones owning the mistake and are giving me cost on anything I need to buy and once we get everything figured out we'll see where things stack up dollar wise, possibly them giving me some sort of refund as well, we will see.

I should have the reprogrammed ECM back today and then I will have everything I need to get the engine installed.

Now I just need a good weekend to be able to do it. We just got 9 inches of snow so that makes it more challenging as we are working outdoors to get it installed and need to be able to roll carts and be on the ground.

Injuneer · 12-16-2021, 08:54 AM

I'm not sure if I'm misunderstanding, but it seems to me they should pay 100% of the costs above what they quoted you to do it - especially since it's possibly a large amount and also because they screwed up. That's along the lines of, "Well, we dropped the engine off the pallet when we uncrated it and cracked the cylinder head, and Joey broke his arm when it got caught under the front cover. Of course, you'll have to pay for a new cylinder head, and Joey's hospital and physical therapy bills, but we'll be nice and let you purchase the parts only for our cost."
It's your money - if it makes you feel good to pay for someone else's mistake, then there you go.

CountryB · 12-17-2021, 06:27 AM

I think this mix up is more like... "you ordered a reman "long block" engine (comes with cylinder heads, cam and valvetrain) and they sent you a "short block" (no cylinder head, camshaft or valvetrain).

So, you only paid for the short black, and now have to pay the additional $ for the missing long block parts (the head, cam, valvetrain). In the end you will (should only) have paid the same amount as if they sent the correct long block in the first place. You're just out the time it takes to get all the missing parts and install them.

briankstan · 12-17-2021, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CountryB

I think this mix up is more like... "you ordered a reman "long block" engine (comes with cylinder heads, cam and valvetrain) and they sent you a "short block" (no cylinder head, camshaft or valvetrain).

So, you only paid for the short black, and now have to pay the additional $ for the missing long block parts (the head, cam, valvetrain). In the end you will (should only) have paid the same amount as if they sent the correct long block in the first place. You're just out the time it takes to get all the missing parts and install them.

yea, it is "Kind of" like that.

I should have the ECM "updated" on Monday, the Reman ECM was a different model than what I needed and couldn't be programed with the software I needed so they updated the original ECM.

We will have everything needed to install next week, Just need some better weather.