Cummins ISC lift pump replacement

[imnprsd]

Yeah, but your Lift Pump only runs for the first 30 seconds that you start your motor and then it shuts down.

But lift pump purpose is the prime the injection system so the low pressure gear pump can take over and suck fuel from the fuel tank.

The FASS fuel pump runs constantly while your engine is running... that's the point!

The FASS TS fuel pump has two additional filters... and recycles fuel to your tank which removes. algae and other contaminants.... and that's the point

[Ray,IN]

Originally Posted by imnprsd

Yeah, but your Lift Pump only runs for the first 30 seconds that you start your motor and then it shuts down.

But lift pump purpose is the prime the injection system so the low pressure gear pump can take over and suck fuel from the fuel tank.

The FASS fuel pump runs constantly while your engine is running... that's the point!

The FASS TS fuel pump has two additional filters... and recycles fuel to your tank which removes. algae and other contaminants.... and that's the point

You've almost convinced me into having a FASS pump installed on my MH. I can no longer perform such work, age and health issues have prevailed.
The downside, the HDT repair shop who does all my MH chassis work charges $135/hr.

[imnprsd]

Damion: The purpose of the FASS "TS" Pump is to protect your CAPS injection system from failure. It has nothing to do with competing with a stock lift pump. The 2nd purpose is therefore to render the stock lift pump "OBSOLETE".

I think if anyone is facing the option of replacing a OEM Lift Pump vs. spending a few extra $$$ on a FASS "TS" Pump (KIT) that there are many more reasons to do this than to replace what you have.

Please share with us the cost of replacing your stock lift pump?

Ray, In: I can never tell what your purpose is? Sometimes you have positive and helpful comments, but in this case I cannot tell what you mean to contribute. Maybe you are just making a personal "decloration," but even so how does that help other people faced with fixing their Lift Pump or considering the option of upgrading to a FASS lift pump?

I do like that you are always "online" and I'm sure you fundamentally like to help people, but why you consistently seek to trash my posts or derail the central message in my posts/threads are confusing at best. Might I suggest you lean more to the "optimistic" side in the future -- when you don't know what you want to say rather than to talk about the "negative" or try to add sarcasm.

My guess is that you do not see yourself doing many more trips in the future. Therefore, a FASS fuel pump offers you little or no "security." But for the rest of us it does... and I think you know it does! So why don't you just say so?

I hope you don't give into the "dark side" any more... when you have so much more to offer! That's my advice. And in general I do like hearing form you!

I hope you continue to help other people on this website, because I'm all "petter'd out." My plan is to step away from IRV2 for 6 months or so. (If I can.) Therefore, if you truly think my threads and posts are helpful, please refer people to them. Thank you!

[Ray,IN]

imnprsd, to which of my replies are you referring, #44?

[imnprsd]

Video:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xp-YuZ5uQYY

[Ray,IN]

That is a great video and explanation, thanks for posting the video!

[Ray,IN]

imnprsd, I just brought my MH home today. The primary pump was leaking, bolts were tight. I asked about installing a FASS pump and was told it would be $1,000 more than a new OEM pump(installed).DW nixed that right away so I had an OEM pump installed.Their only access to the pump was to remove the starter first due to Spartan MM GT frame design.

[imnprsd]

RAY,IN: Please share details of your lift pump repair so other people can benefit from your experiences:

* What type of RV and Chassis and engine do you have?

* Do you have 1 or 2 fuel filters? (Since you quoted a FASS cost to upgrade.)
a
* Do you have one of those pre-2003 Cummins engines with a lift pump gaskets that are prone to deterioration with ULSD Fuel?

* Are you replacing just the gasket or the lift pump?

* Can you describe the leak... and send pictures?

* Did you go to Freightliner?

* What was the total cost of your repair?

* Other details: I always thought dropping the starter would be a good idea to gain access to the lift pump. What is involved to do this?

Did you ever give any thought to replacing the Stator since you were in that area?

The Stator is the electrical part of the ICV that is controlled by the ECM. And those 6 ICV pins meter fuel to the distributor that feeds each of the 6 cylinders.

And since you are going to remove the starter motor, which will give you easy access to this area, I think the Stator should be easily accessed. (Only 4 bolts.)

I also know the STATOR can fail and when it does it can also take-out your ECM, because that Suppressor Diode will not be enough to "block" the electrical spike a failed Stator sends to the ECM.

FYI, Cummins makes a STATOR kit for ~$100. (Part #4089399) ... But I guarantee that if you ask a mechanic about this the answer will be: "We don't like to replace necessary components." So this is something you will have to ask about and push if you want it done for preventative maintenance (insurance).

FAULT CODES: #277 is the Stator Circuit, #539 is the suppressor, and #111 may or may not be the ECM.

Any CAPS component failure will leave you stranded, inconvenienced, sucked bone dry by any repair facility who can get you back on the road in a couple weeks, and ECMs are very expensive. (Not to mention the $1,000s in tow costs.)

...So yes! I think it does make sense to replace the Stator for if you are this far into your project. ($100 plus 30 minutes labor.) ...But I would also concede that NOT replacing the Stator is perfectly sound too. It's a judgement call most people don't make because they don't even know what a Stator is or does. ...But now that you do, the decision is yours (and everyone else who reads this post).

[TenMillie]

Originally Posted by cewarre

I too woke up one recent morning to a puddle of diesel under my coach. I spent lots of time on iRV@ and decided to try replacing the gasket first and then if there is still a problem, purchase a new pump. I followed a posting by jacwjames (which I greatly appreciate) and have the following update:

I spoke with Carl at Capital Volvo, 1-800-247-5673 and he said he still has 370 of the aftermarket gaskets in stock for the Cummins lift pumps and gets calls quite often. They are still $6.71 each and he is shipping me two via UPS. He said the aftermarket gaskets reference to Cummins part numbers 3964385 and 4935004.

Do you have to remove the pump to install a new gasket?
Mine started leaking to, tightened the bolts and all is well for now but will be getting the gasket.

[Ray,IN]

Originally Posted by imnprsd

RAY,IN: Please share details of your lift pump repair so other people can benefit from your experiences:

* What type of RV and Chassis and engine do you have? All that is in my signature.

* Do you have 1 or 2 fuel filters? (Since you quoted a FASS cost to upgrade.) Price quoted me was $1,000 more than replacing the OEM pump, I declined.
a
* Do you have one of those pre-2003 Cummins engines with a lift pump gaskets that are prone to deterioration with ULSD Fuel?Yes, all bolts were tight. I brought old pump home, will replace gasket-if that was cause of leak, and keep for spare.

* Are you replacing just the gasket or the lift pump? Pump was replaced with new OEM Cummins pump.

* Can you describe the leak... and send pictures? Starter was wet with fuel, no pics, I am physically unable to DIY @ 77 W/ COPD.

* Did you go to Freightliner? Independent HDT repair shop.

* What was the total cost of your repair? $1,600

* Other details: I always thought dropping the starter would be a good idea to gain access to the lift pump. What is involved to do this? Removing the starter was the only access to the primary pump, due to Spartan bus chassis_ MM GT frame design. I paid to have everything performed, I was not onsite.

.

Sorry for the unusual reply, that was the easiest way for me. Our MH is back home today.
I was not happy with the cost, but had no option other than take our MH to Camping World . I think I was charged 2 hrs labor for removing the starter, 2 more for replacing starter.(took 2 mechanics 1hr, one to support, 1 to do the wrenching.) They did this laying on creepers. Pump was over $700 from Cummins.

[imnprsd]

Ray, IN: Sorry you got "hosed" on the cost of parts; and that your repair was so expensive because your Chassis required the mechanic to drop your Starter.

I have a Freightliner Custom Chassis and it too has a rail that runs right next to the ECM and lift pump.

Other owners mentioned they only paid $239 for the lift pump and $125 for labor, but I don't think this is common for us Winnebago/Itasca owners.


https://www.mddistributorsstore.com/...-transfer-pump

I think what people need to know is:

* The lift pump gasket is the most likely source of your fuel deliver problems (engine starvation) that leads to engine sputters when accelerating or climbing a grade, or even no-start conditions, because the vacuum pressure drops below -5PSI.
...And then the gear pump cannot suck enough fuel from the tank; which if you lucky your engine will just quit. Bit if you are unlucky your CAPS pump will fail in any number of ways.

* The gasket in pre-2002 Cummins engines is less tolerant to ULSD fuel vs the 2003 and new models. In these older engines (like Ray,IN) the gasket will deteriorate and tightening those 3 lift pump bolts may not (probably will not) work.

There is a Cummins Service Bulletin to this effect on how to replace the lift pump gasket.

* Most people who have claimed the lift pump failed have that wrong. It was the gasket that failed, but the mechanic told them it was the lift pump because no one will pay $1,600 to replace a gasket.

* Cummins likes to charge an arm and a leg every chance they get. And don't be fooled into thinking Cummins has the most qualified mechanics. They don't!

* Ray,IN is probably right about the cost of the FASS UPGRADE costing $2,600 vs. $1,600 for a stock lift pump repair. That's why they call it an upgrade. ...But is it a necessary upgrade?

Ray,IN does not think so, and for him it's probably not a necessary upgrade. ...But then again I doubt he sees himself putting tens-of-thousands of miles on his coach down the road. Therefore, why spend the money! (Is that right Ray,IN?)

On the other hand, if you are capable of installing the installing the FASS fuel pump yourself, the FASS TS 95 GPH Kit ($700 including shipping) plus $150 for extra hose and other parts, then you might want to investigate doing the installation yourself. And for me, because I am putting 3,000 - 7,000 miles on my RV every year; and I plan to do so for another 5 years, it made more sense for me to upgrade to FASS and by-pass my stock Cummins Lift Pump.

FASS INSTALLATION OPTIONS:

A) As an average owner/mechanic, and if this is your first installation, I think if you budget four 6 hour-days that would be about right.

B) Or you can go to your a diesel performance shop and see if they will do it for $2,000. I think they would do it for that price, because they do Dodge trucks all the time for $1,500 (parts and labor).

C) $2,600 - $3,500 would be the price I bet an RV repair or Diesel Semi Truck Repair shop will charge.

Note: Personally, I think a "qualified and experienced FASS Installation mechanic can do an RV-FASS installation in 6-8 hours, depending on the Chassis and other variables. Therefore, I think a "fair" price would be more like $2,000, but good luck finding a mechanic to do it for this price. That's why I think your best bet is to go to a diesel performance truck shop that has room to work on your RV... and then coach them as necessary so they know it's not much different than any Dodge truck.

The purpose of upgrading to a FASS TS Lift Pump is to protect your CAPS injection pump from fuel starvation. It is NOT to replace your stock Cummins Lift Pump... even though that is what you are doing.

The goal is to get out there... Have fun... And get home safely... For the least amount of money you can spend.

Did Ray,IN make the right call? I think he did. It still cost him $1,600.

Do I think I made the right call installing the FASS TS Lift Pump in place of using the stock lift pump: I know I did. And it only cost me $850, because I did the work myself.

Does it make sense for someone to spend $2,600 on a FASS Lift Pump Upgrade? Hard to say. For me, once I know I have to spend any money I think about only doing the best; and yes... the FASS TS Lift Pump has far many more advantages over the stock lift pump.

I think anyone out there who has over 70,000 miles on your stock lift pump should be asking these questions... after you check your 3-lift pump bolts to see if they are loose!

[Smitty77]

Ray,in - I agree that the primary reason I switched to FASS, vs replacing my still non leaking and functioning Lift Pump - was to insure Positive Fuel Pressure to the CAPS. I considered it extra insurance to keep the CAPS lubricated and cooled. And yep, I use an additive to each tank of fuel, as additional insurance on lubricity (Optilube Summer Blend (I Summer + now), and I also have XPD that and Biobor JF that I'll add as I feel is appropriate.).

All that being said. Probably close to a million (Just my SWAG!) CAPS era ISC/ISL's still running in various pieces of equipment, including RV's - with Cummins OEM Lift and no positive fuel pressure... To me, I felt the CAPS was sucking fuel from a long way on DP's, usually with the fuel tank in the front - vs say probably less then 10' away for a OTR truck, or piece of Heavy Equipment or Farm gear...

Nothing to stop you in the future from adding another inline fuel pump, FASS or other.

But for now, go have some fun and learn and enjoy your new coach!
Best,
Smitty

Enjoy

[Ray,IN]

Originally Posted by Smitty77

Ray,in - I agree that the primary reason I switched to FASS, vs replacing my still non leaking and functioning Lift Pump - was to insure Positive Fuel Pressure to the CAPS. I considered it extra insurance to keep the CAPS lubricated and cooled. And yep, I use an additive to each tank of fuel, as additional insurance on lubricity (Optilube Summer Blend (I Summer + now), and I also have XPD that and Biobor JF that I'll add as I feel is appropriate.).

All that being said. Probably close to a million (Just my SWAG!) CAPS era ISC/ISL's still running in various pieces of equipment, including RV's - with Cummins OEM Lift and no positive fuel pressure... To me, I felt the CAPS was sucking fuel from a long way on DP's, usually with the fuel tank in the front - vs say probably less then 10' away for a OTR truck, or piece of Heavy Equipment or Farm gear...

Nothing to stop you in the future from adding another inline fuel pump, FASS or other.

But for now, go have some fun and learn and enjoy your new coach!
Best,
Smitty

Enjoy

We've owned it since April 2013, already had lots of fun, been a lot of places.


I do have a link to a FASS pump only for $599, I would retain the OEM filters.
However the new pump has gaskets designed to withstand biodiesel, it should last for the next 20 years.Hope I do.

[cewarre]

To replace the gasket you only have to remove the three screws that go through the pump manifold down into the motor assembly. However, when I replaced the gasket the stinkin' pump motor started leaking out the connector at the bottom so I had to replace the whole pump assembly anyway. This was January 2018 and the genuine Cummins pump purchased on-line cost just under $400 and I paid a great diesel mechanic friend $200 to help me install it. There are several versions of the pump out there and I opted for the newest Cummins pump P/N 5362269. BTW, it was manufactured in China.