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09-20-2018, 11:04 AM
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#141
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Tucson, AZ
Posts: 6,558
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The best argument against Cummins is the technical bulletin (post #117) that outlines the ISX chordal intake valve malfunctions and also specifies the new replacement parts to resolve the issue.
That bulletin shows Cummins was aware of the issues and redesigned parts to solve it, but did not notify owners or offer assistance.
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97 Monaco Windsor- Sold
07 Monaco Executive McKinley- Sold
04 Monaco Signature Chateau IV
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09-20-2018, 11:10 AM
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#142
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,309
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The material that Cummins used(Who ever made them for Cummins) for the Valve's and valve seat's are the result of this problem.........
Kinda like the Steel manufacture that supplied the steel to the builder of the Titanic.........
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2012 Essex 4544 2011 Jeep JK, M&G Braking, 2014 MTI 27' Hog Hauler, Wireless brake control, 2006 Ultra & 1989 Springer, 2003 Harley-Davidson
FLHR Road King Anniversary
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09-20-2018, 11:26 AM
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#143
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2017
Posts: 1,975
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I am referring to this sentence in post #129.
However, on my RV there is a issue that compounds the problem tremendously making number 6 hole intake fail prematurely. I am thinking most RV's have the exact same issue...
If that is the case then good luck with that. It most likely will take the turn outlined in CountryB's post.
When I was looking at motorhomes the year before purchasing my gasser it was quite evident that the #6 cylinder has been an issue for some time.
I originally had an offer on an older Gulf Stream. After speaking with my mechanic who is primarily a diesel mechanic and going over our typical use while we are still having to work 40 hrs a week it was determined that the 30 minute runs to the campground every other week weren't going be enough to stretch its legs.
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2004 Winnebago Adventurer 38R
Proud Navy Mom
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09-20-2018, 11:45 AM
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#144
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,309
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08Navigator moving to the "Fixed" Turbo on his engine is his first line of defense in correcting this problem, VGT Turbo forcing heat and exhaust gases on the valve train........that already has compression braking? , along with new designed(metal's) for the seat's and valve's............just guessing now.....as he is holding back for now.........with his thought's on this.
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2012 Essex 4544 2011 Jeep JK, M&G Braking, 2014 MTI 27' Hog Hauler, Wireless brake control, 2006 Ultra & 1989 Springer, 2003 Harley-Davidson
FLHR Road King Anniversary
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09-21-2018, 07:44 AM
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#145
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2018
Posts: 103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vito.a
The best argument against Cummins is the technical bulletin (post #117) that outlines the ISX chordal intake valve malfunctions and also specifies the new replacement parts to resolve the issue.
That bulletin shows Cummins was aware of the issues and redesigned parts to solve it, but did not notify owners or offer assistance.
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Bingo Vito....Double bingo on the titanic steel, Palehorse. At the level of court in which I filed there is no discovery...I am suing for "reimbursement of expenses" the fools at Cummins have no clue who or what to bring as a defense.
The judge most likely will not understand the technical issues...it is easier to explain in simple terms - such as - my receipt from Cummins showing they knew it was #6 broken valve, before they took the engine apart. X-Ray eyes?!?! I will print some of the documents MR.D supplied...but the clincher in my opinion is my unit has 1,100 hours or 48,000 miles....a couple Google searchs state the following...this are the types of things a layman can understand.
I will win, I just kicked eBays ass in court...Big guys fall easy. The fact of the matter is the engine should have lasted me a lifetime. There is no argument that a reasonable person would listen too....
Average miles for a diesel truck
The costs will average out over the lifetime of the vehicle, at least somewhat, and the extra power can help significantly. A gasoline powered truck can run for 200,000miles. Conversely, a diesel truck has a longer lifespan and can run for at least 500,000 and as much as 800,000 miles.
How many hours can a diesel engine last?
They will accept much more abuse and often deliver, if well maintained, 8,000 hoursof hard work before need a major overhaul. Theoretically, a well-maintained diesel may last the life of your boat. Since the average recreational boater logs only about200 hours per year, the 8,000 hour diesel would last 40 years.
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09-21-2018, 08:55 AM
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#146
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: So Cal
Posts: 1,369
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Ron, If you do win I hope you will share the judgment information, not the payout, with others who wish to take to small claims and I am sure it will help others willing to do the same thing. If a Judge sees other settlements against Cummins I believe it will be an easier path for multiple settlements. Best of Luck to you
May I ask how you tackled eBay, goliath
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2000 42' BEAVER MARQUIS AMETHYST w/tag 2 SLIDES CAT C12 425 hp SOLD.........
2014 Tiffin Allegro Bus 37AP
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09-21-2018, 12:56 PM
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#147
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 08Navigator
Bingo Vito....Double bingo on the titanic steel, Palehorse. At the level of court in which I filed there is no discovery...I am suing for "reimbursement of expenses" the fools at Cummins have no clue who or what to bring as a defense.
The judge most likely will not understand the technical issues...it is easier to explain in simple terms - such as - my receipt from Cummins showing they knew it was #6 broken valve, before they took the engine apart. X-Ray eyes?!?! I will print some of the documents MR.D supplied...but the clincher in my opinion is my unit has 1,100 hours or 48,000 miles....a couple Google searchs state the following...this are the types of things a layman can understand.
I will win, I just kicked eBays ass in court...Big guys fall easy. The fact of the matter is the engine should have lasted me a lifetime. There is no argument that a reasonable person would listen too....
Average miles for a diesel truck
The costs will average out over the lifetime of the vehicle, at least somewhat, and the extra power can help significantly. A gasoline powered truck can run for 200,000miles. Conversely, a diesel truck has a longer lifespan and can run for at least 500,000 and as much as 800,000 miles.
How many hours can a diesel engine last?
They will accept much more abuse and often deliver, if well maintained, 8,000 hoursof hard work before need a major overhaul. Theoretically, a well-maintained diesel may last the life of your boat. Since the average recreational boater logs only about200 hours per year, the 8,000 hour diesel would last 40 years.
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I will be in the stands rooting for you! Cummins had ought to be ashamed of themselfs
I am more interested in the repair and the part's(Where they come from) and the solution for these engine's so folks can start it up and take a trip and not have to be thinking of this all the time! Makes it hard to enjoy and relax..........hearing the tick toc of the clock wondering when it is going to happen...........
Cummins needs to step up and have a "Massive" recall on all these motor's!! and do the right thing. My dream was to upgrade when I retire(Just retired) and find a Coach with the 600/650 engine.........Looked at one a month ago, backed off as it had a '09 650 ISX in it.......passed on two different one's actually. Seems as though the newer DEF ISX's up to model year 2018 are also on the endangered list!! And low and behold, some time in 2018 they came out with the new 605hp engine.....New/better parts in them?? I am going to just sit back and watch your thread on the repair's..........and what you do to your engine. Best of luck with Cummins, hope you hit the "Pinata" hard and get the full amount allowed by Penna. law
Please keep us posted and Thank you for posting all this and your time!!
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2012 Essex 4544 2011 Jeep JK, M&G Braking, 2014 MTI 27' Hog Hauler, Wireless brake control, 2006 Ultra & 1989 Springer, 2003 Harley-Davidson
FLHR Road King Anniversary
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09-21-2018, 02:06 PM
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#148
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 528
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In my opinion and it's just that an opinion. It's not the motor that's the problem...it's something about the installation. As an isx 871 owner in a Kenworth truck mine and innumerable others regularly make it to between 750,000 miles and 1,000,000 miles with zero problems. Unless there's something different about your 871 than mine. I'm guessing it's due to install and operating conditions within the confines of being used in a motorhome
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09-21-2018, 03:26 PM
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#149
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Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2017
Posts: 528
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Quote:
Originally Posted by palehorse89
08Navigator moving to the "Fixed" Turbo on his engine is his first line of defense in correcting this problem, VGT Turbo forcing heat and exhaust gases on the valve train........that already has compression braking? , along with new designed(metal's) for the seat's and valve's............just guessing now.....as he is holding back for now.........with his thought's on this.
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Turbo is forcing air out of the charge air cooler.(not exaust temps) The EGR system actually lowers combustion temperatures. It's the introduction of all the soot from the EGR that creates all the issues,related to the DPF system.and polished liners
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09-21-2018, 07:22 PM
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#150
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Sep 2013
Posts: 2,476
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kennzz05
In my opinion and it's just that an opinion. It's not the motor that's the problem
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It is only the 650 HP and 600 HP that are affected. What was done to those engines to increase HP? Are you running an 871 with that much power?
The charge for increasing from 525 HP standard engine to 600 HP was $10,000 according to my window sticker. There are lots of 525 HP ISX engines with no complaints. That's a great deal, $10,000 up front and another $25,000 on the back side! Cummins is obviously playing the odds, campers are just not driven very much.
08Navigator is lightyears ahead of most of us. He is involved with the racing industry, understands engines and has resources that understand engines. Diesels are different but they are just mechanical machines. He also has a shop that is just a little better than most of ours.
Unfortunately, the Court that he will appear in will not set any precident that will help the rest of us. 08Navigator, I wish you the best!
I have a DC-3 cylinder (Pratt & Whitney R1830, 1200HP) that the valve head seperated and banged around in there, I guess nothing has changed!
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2014 Newell 2020P 45'8" ISX 600 HP
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09-22-2018, 04:18 AM
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#151
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,309
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kennzz05
Turbo is forcing air out of the charge air cooler.(not exaust temps) The EGR system actually lowers combustion temperatures. It's the introduction of all the soot from the EGR that creates all the issues,related to the DPF system.and polished liners
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Interesting video.......
1:46 into the video is what I was referring to, understand the EGR operation........
__________________
2012 Essex 4544 2011 Jeep JK, M&G Braking, 2014 MTI 27' Hog Hauler, Wireless brake control, 2006 Ultra & 1989 Springer, 2003 Harley-Davidson
FLHR Road King Anniversary
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09-22-2018, 04:40 AM
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#152
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Senior Member
Newmar Owners Club
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 10,309
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Another good video.......
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2012 Essex 4544 2011 Jeep JK, M&G Braking, 2014 MTI 27' Hog Hauler, Wireless brake control, 2006 Ultra & 1989 Springer, 2003 Harley-Davidson
FLHR Road King Anniversary
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09-22-2018, 06:34 PM
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#153
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 1,124
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hypoxia
It is only the 650 HP and 600 HP that are affected.
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apparently 500 HP as well
http://www.irv2.com/forums/f109/stil...ng-381471.html
See also post 57 of this thread (same coach)
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2017 LTV Unity U24CB
2003 Foretravel U320
1999 Lazy Daze 30IB
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09-23-2018, 07:18 AM
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#154
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2016
Posts: 721
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I found a write up from an engine builders association. I tried attaching the pdf but it failed.
They do list the new part numbers along with the build date that new engines had these parts.
The valve seat was added in September 2016. Valves were introduced first in August 2014, then that part number was replaced in May 2015 and then the last version was introduced in April 2015 build dates. I assume the May 2015 date was due to extra stock.
The first engine number to have all the fixes was 79939638.
The concern I have is that everyone so far says it was the exhaust valve but this address the intake only. Just thought I would share what I have found.
My 650hp had a turbo failure but the head needs to come off since there is still an issue. They need to drop the engine out the bottom to the floor then lift my coach up over it to get it out. So far my warranty company has paid for repairs so I assume most will be covered. They do pay for rebuilt items and I wanted new Cummins parts so I may have to pay more to get a new head vs rebuilt but well worth the extra dollars.
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2011 American Coach, American Eagle 45B with 650hp ISX on a Liberty Chassis K3 with two Vizsla's and two cats.....
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