Disturbing oil analysis

[smlranger]

I just got my oil report from Blackstone today . The report starts off with 'there is a lot of metal in this oil. We found potassium and sodium which are markers for coolant contamination. This isn't a lot of coolant, so it is hard to say if it's solely responsible for all the metal, but it might be contributing.'

Their recommendations are to pressure test the cooling system and 'keep runs short??"

So, will be making an appointment at my local Cummins Coach Care shop. The engine only has 36K miles and all required maintenance was done by the prior owner. It runs fine. I certainly hope there will be some good news in all this.

I am kicking myself for not insisting on an oil analysis before I bought the coach. Since it was low mileage, the prior owner had all the service records, and the coach appeared so well kept, I thought would be OK.

[dstinch]

Run a search on this topic there is a lot said. One member is a oil eng. and has is very smart on this topic.

Don

[spike45]

Why is it that most on this forum rely on Blackstone for oil analysis? Consider using this laboratory which is much more professional in their reporting and commenting.

POLARIS Laboratories® |POLARIS Laboratories®

I have worked with this lab since its inception plus the owners were former members of Fleetguard when FGD owned Lubricon, an oil analysis company.

[Mr_D]

Originally Posted by spike45

Why is it that most on this forum rely on Blackstone for oil analysis? Consider using this laboratory which is much more professional in their reporting and commenting.

POLARIS Laboratories® |POLARIS Laboratories®

I have worked with this lab since its inception plus the owners were former members of Fleetguard when FGD owned Lubricon, an oil analysis company.

Not me, I use JG Lubricant Services run by Tom, a retired Allison employee who wrote the specs for TranSynd.

[lonestarace]

Originally Posted by spike45

Why is it that most on this forum rely on Blackstone for oil analysis? Consider using this laboratory which is much more professional in their reporting and commenting.

POLARIS Laboratories® |POLARIS Laboratories®

x2.
I've used both. I've sent them both the same sample to see what their results were and what their recommendations were. The Polaris recommendation is more conservative than Blackstone and you get more info for less $$$.
I now use only Polaris.

[deandec]

Originally Posted by spike45

Why is it that most on this forum rely on Blackstone for oil analysis? Consider using this laboratory which is much more professional in their reporting and commenting.

POLARIS Laboratories® |POLARIS Laboratories®

I have worked with this lab since its inception plus the owners were former members of Fleetguard when FGD owned Lubricon, an oil analysis company.

I gather your opinion is that Blackstone analysis is not useful or accurate?

[smlranger]

I shared the report with the facility manager at Cummins Atlantic here in Roanoke, VA. I've had work done there and I trust them.

Knowing my coach and it's apparent condition when they last serviced it, the manager was not that concerned. He basically told me he was not concerned at all with the 'metals' numbers. He was curious about the potassium level and asked if I was losing any coolant, which I am not. He suggested a very remote possiblity was a leak in the EGR cooler but said that usually is associated with some loss of coolant.

Bottom line, I am taking the coach there for an oil/filter change and a verification of coolant level. I will take our next trip to DW and back then have another oil analysis done by the folks they use. If there is still potassium in the oil, Cummins will pull the EGR cooler and leak test it.

[RustyJC]

Originally Posted by spike45

I have worked with this lab since its inception plus the owners were former members of Fleetguard when FGD owned Lubricon, an oil analysis company.

Not to hijack the thread, but I obviously have been out of the loop too long. I was unaware that Jack Poley (with whom I set up a private labeling program for our company many decades ago) sold Lubricon to Fleetguard.

Rusty

[spike45]

Originally Posted by deandec

I gather your opinion is that Blackstone analysis is not useful or accurate?

More like throwing gasoline on a small fire. Some restraint could put more minds at ease instead of causing panic.

Now somebody will spend a lot of money at Cummins based on one oil analysis report.

It is bordering on irresponsible.

[spike45]

Originally Posted by RustyJC

Not to hijack the thread, but I obviously have been out of the loop too long. I was unaware that Jack Poley (with whom I set up a private labeling program for our company many decades ago) sold Lubricon to Fleetguard.

Rusty

Rusty,

Jack did not get invited to join Polaris's Don Woods, Mark Minges, Jeff White are the principals now. It has grown into an empire in just a little over 12 years.

[smlranger]

Originally Posted by spike45

More like throwing gasoline on a small fire. Some restraint could put more minds at ease instead of causing panic.

Now somebody will spend a lot of money at Cummins based on one oil analysis report.

It is bordering on irresponsible.

Spike, both me and the local Cummins shop agree. Neither of us want to take drastic and expensive steps based on this report.

I have done some research on it does appear that Cummins has a less-than-stellar track record with EGR coolers. Apparently it is not uncommon for these to fail on ISL's used in the trucking industry. My shop tells me I should see coolant loss if I was having a leak, which I am not. However, what I have read about what happens if the EGR cooler fails is not encouraging.....ranging from a blown head gasket if you are lucky up to total engine failure if you are not.

[spike45]

Originally Posted by smlranger

Spike, both me and the local Cummins shop agree. Neither of us want to take drastic and expensive steps based on this report.

I have done some research on it does appear that Cummins has a less-than-stellar track record with EGR coolers. Apparently it is not uncommon for these to fail on ISL's used in the trucking industry. My shop tells me I should see coolant loss if I was having a leak, which I am not. However, what I have read about what happens if the EGR cooler fails is not encouraging.....ranging from a blown head gasket if you are lucky up to total engine failure if you are not.

SmlRanger,

Cummins is not the only engines with EGR cooler issues, really. The problem in most cases is that high exhaust temps can boil the coolant in the cooler causing steam which then is trapped on top of the cooler. The cooler overheats and develops tiny cracks. Also some issues with EGR coolers trapping air from improper venting and filling of the cooling system. In either case, the core case is cracked from high temps. Cummins' first line of warranty in suspected EGR cooler leaks is to use Zerex Super Sealer cooling system stop leak, available at autoparts stores or Cummins distributors. If that fixes the issues, Cummins does not do any more. If it does not fix the issue, they replace the cooler core under warranty. If, in your case, the engine is not covered by warranty, expect them to just say change the core. Try the Zerex stop leak product first, not Bars Leaks or any of those other metallic looking powders. I do know that Cummins service engineering did some field studies on this product. It works well enough that they use it in the above issues. It is not an organic compound like so many of the others are. BTW, Bars Leaks and similar have a major dose of water soluble oil which is claimed to lubricate the water pump. The problem with that is that the oil interferes with liner cavitation pitting protection.....could be fatal for the engine. Also, the only moving part in a water pump that is lubricated is the shaft seal assembly. Since it is a hydrodynamic seal, it is 'lubricated' by the coolant. No need for this to lube the seal....never was a need.

[DAJO]

Spike

What years and what engines use the EGR?

Dave

[smlranger]

Spike, thanks for the info. My father had a radiator shop for years before he died. He loved Barrs Leak because he said anyone who used the stuff would be bringing him a radiator to rod out soon after using it .

Are you suggesting I go ahead and try the Zerex stop leak? Would my EGG cooler be leaking with no visible/detectable loss of coolant? Do you concur with what the Cummins folks are recommending at this point....change oil, put on a thousand or so miles and do another analysis?

Finally, what kind of expense would I be looking at if the EGR cooler did need to be replaced (ball park)?