Community Forums

neilking · 07-27-2013, 11:47 AM

Gary, even with those issues it could still be a good buy depending on price. I really like mine.

Yukon Jack · 07-27-2013, 01:40 PM

Relative to the exhaust manifold warping and cracking problems experienced by many, including myself, even with 2-piece manifolds, there is one thing that contributes to this issue and hasn't really been touched on by the prior threads.

After having to replace my cracked and leaking exhaust manifold on my 01 Dynasty with ISC350 Cummins (only 51,000 miles) and having a lengthy discussion with Cummins service manager and technician, they strongly agree that the problem is greatly influenced by how much and how long you have the exhaust brake (pacbrake) engaged, as the longer it is engaged, the hotter the exhaust manifold and turbo get. And it is these up and down temperature fluxuations that definitely have an influence on the service life of the exhaust manifold (warp & cracking) and turbo, even though they are supposedly designed and built for these RV applications.

It appears that this becomes a delicate balancing act, between how much a person uses the PAC brake vs chassis brakes, as I have always tried to minimize use of chassis brakes by extensively using the pacbrake. But knowing what I do now, I will likely adjust my usage of each in an effort to minimize heat related stresses to these expensive exhaust components.

Just some more information for our great IRV2 community.
Jack

Robar · 07-27-2013, 07:09 PM

Wow - That's a new wrinkle in the continuing saga of how to do the balancing act between how to maximize the longevity of the PAC brake while minimizing the detrimental effect on the manifold and turbo. My MH had the PAC brake frozen up solid and unable to be used when I bought it. The PAC brake people said that it needed to be used more often, which I intended to do with the replacement. Now I hear that using it too frequently or for too long a period can lead to a cracked manifold or turbo.

Does using it for too long a time mean that we shouldn't use it for long grades going down hill (which of course is what we have the PAC brake for in the first place)? Would an EGT gauge or pyro as some are calling it help in determining when the temps are getting dangerously high?

garyb1st · 07-28-2013, 08:59 AM

We may close on the motorhome in a few days. I'm not sure I'm comfortable having this shop do the repairs. Before spending a bunch of money I'd like a second opinion. As mention, they initially missed the leaking Turbo and told me the suspension was fine when in fact the ball joint boots were dry and cracked.

The dealer told me he wouldn't do anything with the motorhome if he were buying it. But he's the dealer and wants to sell it. Personally I'd like to wait a few months and get another opinion before investing $3-4,000 in repairs.

What is the down side of doing nothing for a few months?

Robar · 07-29-2013, 06:51 AM

I put off repairing my manifold a month or so while I waited for the shop to have time to fix it. They told me it wouldn't harm anything but I would get poor gas mileage and be down on power. Frankly, I didn't notice anything. I suppose that if you had a perfectly good manifold and drove it for a while you might warp it, but chances are good that it is already warped or cracked because you probably don't know how long it has been driven already.

As for the cracked boots on the ball joints, virtually all Spartan MM chassis have them, some worse than others. Mine are cracked but that doesn't mean that the ball joints are bad, it just means that they will wear out sooner. Therefore it is not out of the question to hear that the suspension is OK while the boots are cracked. That is what I heard with mine. The only fix for the boots is to replace the ball joints but I am going to wait until the ball joints are actually worn some before spending all that money. In the mean time I am trying to find some way to keep dirt and crap out of the joint, because that is all that the boots do anyway.

hillboy · 07-29-2013, 06:58 AM

If you use the phrase, "I have doubts" then you need to communicate that to the dealer and let them make you feel better.

Does the dealer own the MH or is it a consignment sale for the owner?

Much depends on the price. Unless they have buyers lined up you can take all the time you want. Since the dealer is so confident ask if he will give you a written guarantee for 90 days after your first trip.

The market for an older MH is limited to folks like the ones who have responded to your post. Willing to trade low price for possible future problems. If a machine is operated over time, it will have problems. It is all about the trade offs.

There are good repair shops. Do a separate post asking for people in your area to recommend a few. Have the dealer take it to one of them even if you have to pay.

PS At some point if you are undecided the dealer will call you and say, " we have another buyer looking at it today, do you want it?" Sales 101.

Quote:

Originally Posted by garyb1st

We may close on the motorhome in a few days. I'm not sure I'm comfortable having this shop do the repairs. Before spending a bunch of money I'd like a second opinion. As mention, they initially missed the leaking Turbo and told me the suspension was fine when in fact the ball joint boots were dry and cracked.

The dealer told me he wouldn't do anything with the motorhome if he were buying it. But he's the dealer and wants to sell it. Personally I'd like to wait a few months and get another opinion before investing $3-4,000 in repairs.

What is the down side of doing nothing for a few months?

hillboy · 07-29-2013, 06:51 PM

Let me reply to myself.....

"The market for an older MH is limited to folks like the ones who have responded to your post. Willing to trade low price for possible future problems. If a machine is operated over time, it will have problems. It is all about the trade offs. "

I should have made it clear that I am also a person who is willing to trade low price for possible future problems. I have had three used MH and have gotten many miles with few problems.
You do need a good set of tools and a wife that understands that a new injector pump is a great birthday present and a turbo is a great gift any time.

garyb1st · 07-30-2013, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Robar

As for the cracked boots on the ball joints, virtually all Spartan MM chassis have them, some worse than others. Mine are cracked but that doesn't mean that the ball joints are bad, it just means that they will wear out sooner. Therefore it is not out of the question to hear that the suspension is OK while the boots are cracked. That is what I heard with mine. The only fix for the boots is to replace the ball joints but I am going to wait until the ball joints are actually worn some before spending all that money. In the mean time I am trying to find some way to keep dirt and crap out of the joint, because that is all that the boots do anyway.

I've seen a couple posts where the dried out boots were covered in a waterproof material, secured to keep the grease in and then checked a couple times a year. One poster claimed his quick fix has been working for two years. Another poster said he took an old bicycle tube, cut it to size and then wrapped it around the boot. Don't remember how he secured it but claimed it worked.

garyb1st · 07-30-2013, 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hillboy

I should have made it clear that I am also a person who is willing to trade low price for possible future problems. I have had three used MH and have gotten many miles with few problems.

You do need a good set of tools and a wife that understands that a new injector pump is a great birthday present and a turbo is a great gift any time.

Buy low and take my chances works for me. This one is more than 10,000 off low retail. That gives me a lot of room for repairs. To me, it's not a matter of if but when and how much. I fully expect to have breakdowns. I expect that they will be expensive. I'd just like to have an idea of how much money I should set aside.

When you have a moment, let me know what kind of tools I should invest in. I'll pass that on to my wife. The wife is on board 100%.

Graniteman · 07-30-2013, 05:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garyb1st

I've seen a couple posts where the dried out boots were covered in a waterproof material, secured to keep the grease in and then checked a couple times a year. One poster claimed his quick fix has been working for two years. Another poster said he took an old bicycle tube, cut it to size and then wrapped it around the boot. Don't remember how he secured it but claimed it worked.

This was how the ball joints on my Spartan chassis were when I bought it 3 years ago. I repacked and wrapped them this spring. I used large plastic wire ties to hold the rubber on. I didn't notice any dirt when I removed the old rubber. My ball joints don't have grease fittings so I have to pack the grease in from the outside. I have a needle fitting on my grease gun that can puncture the rubber to keep things greased between the total swapout. I know this isn't the most ideal situation, but there is no play in them and I refuse to change perfectly good ball joints because of dust boots. I think if protect them in a similar fashion and stay diligent with the grease they will be fine.

As far as the gauges Banks has an excellent pyrometer that has a motorhome wire kit (over 60 feet I believe). I just purchased a regular Autometer gauge for the turbo boost.

hillboy · 07-30-2013, 05:33 PM

Gary,
there are a few discussions on this board about tools. Lots of great info. I try to use tools at home and enjoy the travel, but I have done some minor things along the way.

Keep reading these forums an you will be able to get a lot done. Always good to be able to know something about how things work when you have to talk about problems with a repair shop.

One of the best tools is a Tow insurance/roadside assistance insurance. I've only used the service two times in 25 yrs... once for a tire change and one time for a transmission problem, but was glad to have it.

Belt and filter spares are a must, as is a list of phone numbers. Spartan and Newmar are outstanding with info and advice.

Enjoy the ride.

Bykerboy · 07-24-2014, 01:41 PM

I have recently been having an overheating issue with my '06 Monaco Knight with a Cummins ISC 330 engine. Just heard from the shop that this is caused by an exhaust manifold leak and the repairs (new manifolds, bolts, gaskets and labor) will be $2,000. This seems on the high side from what I have read on the forum here.

Given the tight working quarters to get to the engine I'm not inclined to do this myself but my jaw certainly dropped at the cost!

Twomed · 07-24-2014, 02:20 PM

To all who will be reading this,as this issue pops up with their coach (Manifold leak). Previous threads that get this far usually have the caveat...." soak the bolts, top, bottom, spacers, with a good rust buster for several days to a week BEFORE turning it over to the shop". Apply liberally, not the time to worry about a messy engine.

You will likely save yourself a lot of money by usually precluding broken bolts, also may save some on labor as bolts will come out easier/faster. You will also see why labor is so high or cheaper, depending on the chassis/builder, and the way the tech has to maneuver to get to the bolts.

Good rust buster... PB Blaster, Kroil, 50/50 solution of trans fluid and acetone. All will work. Google the 50/50 and you will find charts on relative torque required to remove bolts using various products.

I did my own and can tell you that even with a N/S bed that lifts all the way up, and side radiator it was somewhat difficult. Some bolts from top some from bottom, different combos of sockets etc. BUT... I figure I made $1K+ that day.

Bykerboy · 07-24-2014, 02:24 PM

My coach is a rear radiator which makes access even more difficult. I'm letting them keep the coach for a week to do the work so I am going to give them a call right now and make sure they soak the manifold bolts for a few days before doing the removal.

Thanks for all the good advice.