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GA Navigator · 02-13-2016, 06:03 PM

It's been a couple of years since I pulled the balancer so I don't remember all the details, but I do remember it being a booger to get off. I had a frame member and battery box behind the crank that in hindsight i should have removed. At the time I read the Cummins procedure on inspecting the harmonic balancer and it didn't make much sense with what I was seeing. I saw nothing obviously wrong with mine, so I re-installed it.
Sitting here typing I think of a question. Does the harmonic balancer need to be installed to a certain position? With four bolts, it could go on in four different positions. I've probably driven 15,000 miles since the repair, but reading this thread brings up questions in my mind about how I did it.

1994 Holiday Rambler Navigator
Cummins 8.3
Allison MD3060

twinboat · 02-13-2016, 06:40 PM

It's Time to Inspect Your Harmonic Damper
(But please don't call it a balancer)

What Is A Harmonic Balancer, aka Crankshaft Damper?
A harmonic balancer reduces destructive crankshaft torsional vibration, which is the end-to-end twisting/rebound motion, that is naturally generated during each power stroke.* A harmonic balancer contributes to greater valve train and timing efficiency, plus reduces wear of critical engine components such as main bearings, oil pump and the crankshaft itself.
*

dennis45 · 02-13-2016, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinboat

It's Time to Inspect Your Harmonic Damper
(But please don't call it a balancer)

What Is A Harmonic Balancer, aka Crankshaft Damper?
A harmonic balancer reduces destructive crankshaft torsional vibration, which is the end-to-end twisting/rebound motion, that is naturally generated during each power stroke.* A harmonic balancer contributes to greater valve train and timing efficiency, plus reduces wear of critical engine components such as main bearings, oil pump and the crankshaft itself.
*

Sorry, this engine only has a single hunk of steel. No damper.

See below,

I think you'll find that the balancer is just a single hunk of steel meaning no inertia ring as our engines are internally balanced - Just a counter weight just clean it --paint it and re-install it .
__________________
Chuck
Brownsburg Indiana
1992 American Eagle

DMTTRANSPORT · 02-13-2016, 07:00 PM

So I wasn't "PC" with the official name of the piece of steel that does nothing, why do they install them on most motors, probably a good reason....Sorry I don't have a Cummins one and never claimed to

GA Navigator · 02-13-2016, 07:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by twinboat

It's Time to Inspect Your Harmonic Damper
(But please don't call it a balancer)

What Is A Harmonic Balancer, aka Crankshaft Damper?
A harmonic balancer reduces destructive crankshaft torsional vibration, which is the end-to-end twisting/rebound motion, that is naturally generated during each power stroke.* A harmonic balancer contributes to greater valve train and timing efficiency, plus reduces wear of critical engine components such as main bearings, oil pump and the crankshaft itself.
*

Inspect for what, how, are there specialty machines that do this?
Your description of a damper makes sense and it seems that it would be more critical on a long crank like an inline 6. So if it's purpose is to dampen torsional vibrations, would that mean the clock position on the crank would not matter? I'm guessing it doesn't matter since there is no keyway or other means to mount it in a particular position.
I'm sorry to hijack the OP's question, but maybe this will help him too.

1994 Holiday Rambler Navigator
Cummins 8.3
Allison MD3060

GA Navigator · 02-13-2016, 07:20 PM

Wow this is moving faster than I can read. And it's much more fun to read than the missing switch, dead battery, tpms, stuff on the A section.

1994 Holiday Rambler Navigator
Cummins 8.3
Allison MD3060

DMTTRANSPORT · 02-13-2016, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GA Navigator

Inspect for what, how, are there specialty machines that do this?
Your description of a damper makes sense and it seems that it would be more critical on a long crank like an inline 6. So if it's purpose is to dampen torsional vibrations, would that mean the clock position on the crank would not matter? I'm guessing it doesn't matter since there is no keyway or other means to mount it in a particular position.
I'm sorry to hijack the OP's question, but maybe this will help him too.

1994 Holiday Rambler Navigator
Cummins 8.3
Allison MD3060

Last one I changed on a Cat Had a Key, the op asked a question about the seal and the dampener is involved with the seal replacement, didn't realize the dampener does nothing on a Cummins.......(inline six)

pwhittle · 02-13-2016, 07:55 PM

I'll take pictures.

On QuickServe, there were instructions on checking the Vibration Damper including measuring the thickness and coating it with something and putting it in the oven and look for leakage.

I'll have to go back and review again.

Paul

DMTTRANSPORT · 02-13-2016, 08:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pwhittle

I'll take pictures.

On QuickServe, there were instructions on checking the Vibration Damper including measuring the thickness and coating it with something and putting it in the oven and look for leakage.

I'll have to go back and review again.

Paul

Check it for what? the others claim it does nothing......

pwhittle · 02-13-2016, 08:07 PM

Well, if QuickServe for my ESN indicates some checks, I am going to go with their recommendations.

Paul

pwhittle · 02-13-2016, 08:16 PM

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Paul

Papa_Jim · 02-13-2016, 08:21 PM

The original design front seal was neoprene. The new design front seal is teflon. With the teflon seal, DO NOT remove the plastic sleeve from the inside of the seal prior to installing the seal. DO NOT lubricate the teflon seal or the crankshaft prior to installing the seal. If you do lubricate it during assembly, it will leak.

Yes, you can remove the front timing cover if you want. Doing that is assuming that the old seal was installed out of line to the crankshaft, which is doubtful. If the old seal has begun to leak simply because it is old and worn out, then a simple replacement of just the oil seal should suffice.

Remove the old seal. Push the new seal onto the crankshaft and into the timing cover making sure NOT TO REMOVE the plastic sleeve until the seal is full installed. Again, NO LUBRICATION.

Having said all this, there's absolutely no harm to removing the timing cover, with one caveat. When prying the timing cover from the timing plate, try to not disturb the timing plate to engine block gasket. That could lead to an oil leak at the timing plate to engine block gasket, and that can be a whole lot of work to fix.

Jim

dennis45 · 02-13-2016, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMTTRANSPORT

Check it for what? the others claim it does nothing......

Sorry to mislead, these dampers do need to be replaced. I was poking fun at the poster that said it was only a hunk of steel which is definetly not true.
If I recall, the OP's engine has over 100K on it.
If it were mine, I would replace it since it has to be removed anyway.

Papa_Jim · 02-13-2016, 08:29 PM

Now retired, our diesel engine machine shop included a complete crankshaft rebuilding department. The #1 cause of crankshaft breakage was a defective front crankshaft harmonic damper. Often overlooked, sometimes decided to reuse due to cost, the subsequent engine component damage could be extensive. It is not possible to determine the condition of a crankshaft harmonic damper by looking at it.

The strangest case we had was a freshly rebuilt diesel engine that experienced multiple camshaft breakages just behind the #1 bearing journal. This was eventually determined to be caused by a defective NEW crankshaft front harmonic damper.

Jim