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Old 03-19-2020, 06:20 PM   #1
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Help with Coolant Flush on 2009 ISC 8.3

I'm doing a coolant flush on my 09 Tiffin Phaeton 40 QTH with a Cummins ISC 8.3 and I have done some of the drain but was wanting to get verification on some of the other petcocks and valves. The pictures below show a petcock and a valve on one of the heater hoses which I assume are to help flush the water in the block. The final picture shows a petcock near the thermostat housing which I assume would help drain the block. If anyone could verify these assumptions I would greatly appreciate it.

Thanks
Jerry
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Old 03-20-2020, 04:32 AM   #2
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Jerry,

The petcock in the first photo is for the coolant running to and from your dash heater. I have two on my coach and it is a 2012 with Cummins ISC. Its referred to as the heater loop valve.

I followed the procedure in the steps outlined on the decal affixed above my radiator when I changed to the Fleetguard OAT coolant.

The second photo is the coolant drain for the oil cooler, or where the coolant enters the filter housing chambers to cool the oil. I drained the coolant from there as well and then used that particular petcock again to bleed (purge) air out of the system once I refilled....I used the heater loop petcock too to be certain the air was purged from the system.....went back and forth a few times while running the dash heater.

While the engine was just WARM, I removed the cap from the overflow reservoir and allowed the air to escape there as well.

Took it out the following day and ran it up to operating temperature on the highway and everything seemed fine.

It was my first time changing the coolant and I followed the procedures the best I could interpret them Click image for larger version

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Old 03-21-2020, 07:39 AM   #3
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Thanks Toribk. I was hoping one of the drains would be for the block so I could get as much of the old out as I could. I ended up the day with the restore flush in an ran it for 90 minutes and then drained. Today I'll run it through a few clean water flushes and then change all of the radiator hoses before I refill with coolant. I'm not doing this too fast because I still haven't found the coolant filter nor have i found the total system capacity. I'm waiting for a callback from the Cummins tech help desk with those answers. I knew this wouldn't be a quick job but with the COVID19 issue I am content to stay at home and do some preventive maintenance on the coach. Thanks again for the response.

Jerry
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Old 03-21-2020, 10:53 AM   #4
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If this helps,
Isl 400
2007 HR
NO collant filter
Rear radiator
39 quarts coolant

Terry
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Old 03-22-2020, 08:10 AM   #5
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I have been compiling notes for the day I plan to change my OAT coolant. Your engine diagram may be different than mine, but the principles are the same.

You can down load the .pdf for more information.

And here is a great tool I plan to use for also replacing the Dexron III in my hydraulic reservoir. (The big one that my fan clutch and steering box use.)

Check out this tool to vacuum out your coolant:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...5adff4718e8d76


And definitely watch this video on how to use this tool (easy):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=g6j0ZvjVj8Q

Note: I have not ordered it because I would prefer to buy a 110AC pump and radiator/cap accessories that will do the same thing. This is because I don't have a compressor when I am in my Montana camp spot for over 2-months; and I can't run my engine to use the compressor on the coach.

Otherwise, I would like to thank Toribk for his list on how to change his coolant by hand.

Attachment: .pdf outline my notes on how to do a coolant flush.
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Old 03-23-2020, 09:38 AM   #6
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Coolant Flush

I can definitely see that this job is not for the faint of heart. With help on this forum and trying different things I have gotten thru the Restore flush and I found that if the engine is running I can open the oil cooler petcock, the heater hose petcock and the radiator petcock while filling the top of the radiator with my garden hose. This has given everything a good flush and nothing but clear water is running out.

I have wrestled the upper radiator hose out and the lower was easy. Now i have to go through Freightliner to find replacements and once they are installed I can do a distilled water flush and then add my antifreeze.

I did notice in one of the threads an overflow tank and while I cant find one on my coach, it surely could use one. I keep burping out coolant from the overflow tube on top of the radiation until I ultimately get the low coolant light so I need something that doesn't lose the coolant. Has anyone added a overflow tank to their coach?

Jerry
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Old 03-27-2020, 10:41 AM   #7
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AimHigh: Now that you finished the job, which I understand is more time consuming than anything, would you do it again the same way or would you elect to spend $125 and buy one of those vacuum type coolant tools like this one?

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0...5adff4718e8d76

And as shown in this video:



or

https://www.youtube.com/watch?reload=9&v=g6j0ZvjVj8Q

I plan on doing a coolant flush this summer even though I have OAT and only 100,000 miles. Or I may capture my OAT if it tests good, do a "Restore" flush and put my old coolant back. I have not decided.

When you flushed your system with "Restore" what was the type and color of your old coolant? What was the color of the Restore flush? And did you see any color change with the final distilled water flush?

How many miles on your RV?

Thanks for your help and data points!
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Old 03-28-2020, 12:52 PM   #8
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Coolant Flush

imnprsd,

I'n not sold on the vacuum type pumps purely for the reason that I don't see how they can get the coolant out of the engine because the thermostat is closed. In any case the answer to your question is yes I would do it again. This is mainly because I had a learning curve determining how to get the block water out while flushing, Let me try to answer your other questions.

1. I have the red OAT coolant and there is no coolant filter.
2. I flushed the entire system 3 times before I put the restore in.
3. Fleetgard only makes one Restore and it is clear and also a Restore Plus for really bad systems (color unknown) but they completely are out of the system before refill.
4 I have an issue reusing the same coolant unless it was very recently put in. You have 100,000 miles on your coach which according to my book is 20,000 overdue and when you look at the cost of the coolant versus a coolant system breakdown, is it worth it?
5. After the 3rd flush, I put the restore in and ran the coach on fast idle for 90 minutes and drained.
6. Replacing the radiator hoses were the worst of it and they are expensive ($225) for my two but I wanted to do the job right because I have 94,000 miles on it now and it will be 170,000 for the next go around.
7. The 5th and 6th flush with tap water ended up clear and when i did the distilled water flush it came out so clear that I re bottled it for drinking later. Just joking but it did come out clear. There is no doubt in my mind that opening the heater hose petcock and the oil cooler petcock let me flush the entire system.
8. The entire job cost me:
$30 for the Restore
$225 for radiator hoses
$12 for new radiator cap (15lbs)
$80 for 6 gallons full strength antifreeze ( i get a good price at NAPA)
$13 for a mortar tray 15-20 gallons to catch old antifreeze.

$360 total
$10 for swear jar

Cummins wanted $450 for 2 flushes plus all chemicals and parts. So yes I would do it again and I like learning about diesels. At 68 years old I am a bit slower but I will do it as long as I can get up and down. It's good to see the underneath of your coach at times.

Best of luck whatever you do.
Jerry

P.S. Very Important, make sure you are putting water in the radiator at least as fast as it is coming out with all of the petcocks open and the engine is running.
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Old 03-28-2020, 02:54 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AimHigh View Post
imnprsd,

I'n not sold on the vacuum type pumps purely for the reason that I don't see how they can get the coolant out of the engine because the thermostat is closed. In any case the answer to your question is yes I would do it again. This is mainly because I had a learning curve determining how to get the block water out while flushing, Let me try to answer your other questions.

1. I have the red OAT coolant and there is no coolant filter.
2. I flushed the entire system 3 times before I put the restore in.
3. Fleetgard only makes one Restore and it is clear and also a Restore Plus for really bad systems (color unknown) but they completely are out of the system before refill.
4 I have an issue reusing the same coolant unless it was very recently put in. You have 100,000 miles on your coach which according to my book is 20,000 overdue and when you look at the cost of the coolant versus a coolant system breakdown, is it worth it?
5. After the 3rd flush, I put the restore in and ran the coach on fast idle for 90 minutes and drained.
6. Replacing the radiator hoses were the worst of it and they are expensive ($225) for my two but I wanted to do the job right because I have 94,000 miles on it now and it will be 170,000 for the next go around.
7. The 5th and 6th flush with tap water ended up clear and when i did the distilled water flush it came out so clear that I re bottled it for drinking later. Just joking but it did come out clear. There is no doubt in my mind that opening the heater hose petcock and the oil cooler petcock let me flush the entire system.
8. The entire job cost me:
$30 for the Restore
$225 for radiator hoses
$12 for new radiator cap (15lbs)
$80 for 6 gallons full strength antifreeze ( i get a good price at NAPA)
$13 for a mortar tray 15-20 gallons to catch old antifreeze.

$360 total
$10 for swear jar

Cummins wanted $450 for 2 flushes plus all chemicals and parts. So yes I would do it again and I like learning about diesels. At 68 years old I am a bit slower but I will do it as long as I can get up and down. It's good to see the underneath of your coach at times.

Best of luck whatever you do.
Jerry

P.S. Very Important, make sure you are putting water in the radiator at least as fast as it is coming out with all of the petcocks open and the engine is running.
Great overview!
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Old 03-28-2020, 04:46 PM   #10
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AimHigh: Thank you for numbering your steps. I have yet to do my coolant flush so I appreciate your help.

If isn't not too much more to ask, can you address these additional questions:

* What condition were your old hoses in?

* Where did you get your coolant hoses from? ...Cummins, Napa, or your chassis manufacture/Frightliner?

* Was your OAT coolant "clean looking" when you flushed it out?

* Do you think using "Restore" was a necessary step?

* You said you don't have a coolant filter. Are you also saying your coach operations manual recommends an OAT coolant change every 80,000?

==> I was under the impression OAT will last 600,000 miles; and that OAT will not breakdown overtime? Is this not the accepted standard?

Note: I do have a coolant filter on my 2004 Itasca "Horizon" 40AD-ISC-350, and I have had 2 filter changes over the last 100,000 miles. So I don't know how much coolant filters make a difference, but I would think they are useful? ...Maybe they are not?

IMO, I don't trust industry expert opinions when it comes to OAT lasting the life of the engine; any more than I trust Allison who says my Transmission Fluid (Transend) will last 300,000 miles, with filter changes every 60,000 miles.

Again, thank you for sharing your experiences with us!
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Old 03-29-2020, 11:34 AM   #11
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OAT is normally considered lifetime coolant or 1,000,000 miles or 20,000 hours

Likely to be lifetime for most
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Old 03-29-2020, 12:17 PM   #12
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Milford 47: Right! OAT is considered to be a "lifetime" coolant. ...So why did you replace your coolant if you had OAT?

Did you get some value (dirty muck) out of your engine block by using "Restore"?
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Old 03-29-2020, 05:48 PM   #13
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Coolant Flush

Quote:
Originally Posted by imnprsd View Post
AimHigh: Thank you for numbering your steps. I have yet to do my coolant flush so I appreciate your help.

If isn't not too much more to ask, can you address these additional questions:

* What condition were your old hoses in?

* Where did you get your coolant hoses from? ...Cummins, Napa, or your chassis manufacture/Frightliner?

* Was your OAT coolant "clean looking" when you flushed it out?

* Do you think using "Restore" was a necessary step?

* You said you don't have a coolant filter. Are you also saying your coach operations manual recommends an OAT coolant change every 80,000?

==> I was under the impression OAT will last 600,000 miles; and that OAT will not breakdown overtime? Is this not the accepted standard?

Note: I do have a coolant filter on my 2004 Itasca "Horizon" 40AD-ISC-350, and I have had 2 filter changes over the last 100,000 miles. So I don't know how much coolant filters make a difference, but I would think they are useful? ...Maybe they are not?

IMO, I don't trust industry expert opinions when it comes to OAT lasting the life of the engine; any more than I trust Allison who says my Transmission Fluid (Transend) will last 300,000 miles, with filter changes every 60,000 miles.

Again, thank you for sharing your experiences with us!
All who have chimed in:

I pretty much just go with the recommended maintenance as this is my first diesel. I spent about 55 years as a back yard mechanic on gas engines but I know nothing about diesels. Anyway, I was wrong about the 80,000 miles, it is actually 60,000 miles for this maintenance step as can be seen in this pic of my maintenance manual.

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So now I will get to your questions inmprsd.

1. The hoses were not bad and it was pricey but in the grand scheme of things I now have a set of back up hoses and you cant get some of these at your local Autozone.

2. I checked all of the local parts places and finally called Tiffin and they just needed the last 6 of my vin and they gave me the part numbers and then I just googled them and a place name "FindItParts.com" had the best price I could find and they were in stock. I ordered on Tuesday and got them on Saturday (California to Florida) with free shipping over $100 I think.

3. The basic coolant didn't look bad but I had a layer of sludge that came out in the first 10 gallons drained. Sorry I didn't take photos. However I don't think I would ever reuse coolant unless it was relatively fresh.

4. Again, for a little investment $30, the restore did clean the system very well and after I drained the Restore and flushed again, the water was really clean.

5. See pic of maintenance page. 60,000 mile recommended drain, flush, fill.

6. The way I look at it, I put $90,000 in this new to me coach which we love, and I know others that put 5 times that much in a coach so why wouldn't we want to protect that investment. As a DIYer, a few hundred dollars to give my engine different transfusions (oil, coolant, transmission) is a relative low cost maintenance insurance and you get to see how the inside of your engine is doing.

I really hope this has been helpful and that I didn't make it seem like a pain in the rear. If you like mechanic work on your vehicles, this is just another neat thing to learn.

Happy Trails and may God bless you and keep you safe.

Thanks to all military, current or former, for your tremendous service and/or sacrifice to this great country.

Jerry
Air Force, Above All
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Old 03-31-2020, 01:10 PM   #14
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AimHigh

Thanks for the update and sounds like you did get some sludge. You never know what had happened in the past so probably time well spent. You should be set to travel when we can
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