ISB 5.9 on Freightliner: Alternator R&R

[Big Notes]

I couldn't find any threads describing the alternator R&R. They may be out there, but my Google-Fu must not have been strong enough.

Our rig is a 1999 Itasca Suncruiser 34V diesel pusher with the 5.9 Cummins ISB 24 valve and the dreaded 53 stamped on the block.

On the way from Colorado to Louisiana before Christmas we had a litany of issues; my clue to the alternator going out was that the speedo was starting to swing back and forth and go to zero. The odometer was following suit by not tracking all the mileage, and from time to time the ABS light would come on. It rarely got into the red 18v range but did a few times, so we prayed and made it to our destination.

My research shows that this is a common problem when the voltage regulator starts going south. So for this week my goal is to R&R the alternator. It's a Work In Progress so I'll post as it goes.

I picked up a remanufactured 22SI compatible from Conroe Truck and Trailer Parts on TX 105 in Cut'n'Shoot Texas, while I was out there last week visiting family. When I called them up I told the lady that answered "I need an alternator!" and she said, "what, a 22SI or what?" She's either psychic or this must be a pretty common alternator. Friendly folks, kudos, give 'em a try if you're in the Conroe area.

We laid Christmas to rest yesterday, so today I started in on it this morning a little bleary eyed from too much Christmas cheer. Access is via the bedroom; the bed raises up and there's a cover over the engine, about 4' x 6'. Removal of the 8 3/8" metal screws was simple; a little help from my wife, and I soon had it outdoors where I cleaned it up a little.

Changing an alternator is pretty basic in theory; in practice it's been a dirty and challenging job so far. I was able to climb down in the engine bay, carefully avoiding putting any weight on the fragile bed frame. Online research let me to believe that I have a tensioner underneath the alternator; one 13mm bolt to loosen (it was pretty tight) and a 3/8" square hole for rotating the thing. I tried to rotate it from the top with a 1/2" cheater and a 3/8" adapter. I could move it but didn't have enough rotation to remove the belt.

So I recruited my grandson to help. He crawled on top of the engine, laying down on it, so he could remove the belt from the alternator pulley once I relieved the tension; I crawled underneath on the wet concrete of the driveway and positioned myself for the best leverage. We tried several things; using the breaker bar wasn't getting it, because I still couldn't get enough rotation to get it off. I had a full 90 degrees but no go. As a bonus everything we tried sent a little dirt crud shower my way, but such is life.

The winning combination of tools was a 1/2" ratchet with the 3/8" adapter plus a cheater pipe, a little luck getting it to ratchet back far enough for maybe 120 degrees of rotation, and we got it off. The sun was going down, grandson was ready to hunt in the back 40 for a bit, so To Be Continued tomorrow.

Recap....

Tools:
3/8" nut driver to remove the screws holding the engine cover
13mm socket and appropriate ratchet handle for the bolt that holds the tensioner
1/2" ratchet handle and 1/2" to 3/8" reducing adapter to fit the square hold on the tensioner in order to rotate it
Patience and a good grandson

Steps:
Raise the bed and remove the engine cover
Loosen the 13mm bolt holding the tensioner
Rotate the tensioner using the 3/8" socket driver enough so that the belt comes off. Rotation is clockwise from the rear or counter clockwise from the front).

More to come!

Jeff

[twinboat]

Your alternator has absolutly no connection to your speedometer or ABS light. Tachometers sometimes run off alternators but not vehicle speed.

Your volts should NEVER reach 18 volts. 14.6 volts should be the highest you should ever see.

Before you install the 22SI, find out if it's the correct one. Once installed, you bought it.

Many Motorhomes of your era used Leece Neville alternators that run their output to an large diode isolator. In doing that they need what's called a Dulvac system to supply battery voltage feed back to the alternator. The diode isolator blocks that and you are running your alternator unregulated.

That MH, most likely, did not come with a 22SI alternator. Someone probably use one, as a cheap replacement, it in the past. They don't work properly, out of the box.

I recommend you find an auto electric shop who know about the Dulvac system for your overcharging issue.
There is a web site that sells a 22SI alternator designed for Dulvac systems. Qualitypower.com . They may be able to help.

Then you need to find your vehicle speed sensor and trouble shoot that system. If the speed sensor is acting up, it will effect your speedometer and ABS system.

The 22SI alternator is a popular model, just not on older MHs.

[Big Notes]

Wanting the correct info, before I started, I called Freightliner with my chassis number and they gave me Delco Remy 19200386 for the alternator number and it is, indeed, a 22SI.

Given that the symptoms -- speedo at 0, odometer not moving, ABS lights coming on -- correlate with the spikes in the alternator gauge, I'm fairly certain that they are connected.

I've reviewed my diagram and see a diode between the #1 connector and the Neutral Sense circuit and the Reverse Wiring circuit. Since DUVAC means "dual voltage ac system" for dual 12 and 24 volt circuits, I looked up the voltage for the transmission control module and am not sure if it's a 24V circuit.

Freightliner is closed for the week for other than emergency situations so I can't call and find out about the WTEC requirements.

tbd....

Jeff

[w6pea]

Jeff
Sounds like you have a fun day planned for tomorrow. Good Luck. I think you did the right thing by calling Freightlinner. Hope you have a good day tomorrow,

[Wizard]

Just for info, when my alternator went quit charging, I took it to my local dealer and they had a mobile mechanic come in to do the replacement.

He replaced the alternator and I had him replace the serpentine belt at the same time.

Total cost was $795.00

Not to bad as I have gotten too stiff to do it myself. Mine also was easily accessed from the bottom of the rig.

[Al10453]

On my '99 Adventurer 5.9 "53"the alternator was rebuilt a little over 10 years ago. The rebuilder said he would use SI21 as it was better than the the newer SI22 at that time.

[select55]

Originally Posted by Wizard

Just for info, when my alternator went quit charging, I took it to my local dealer and they had a mobile mechanic come in to do the replacement.

He replaced the alternator and I had him replace the serpentine belt at the same time.

Total cost was $795.00

Not to bad as I have gotten too stiff to do it myself. Mine also was easily accessed from the bottom of the rig.

considering the alternator is only 125$ and a belt about 25-30$
that's a pretty big bill for a mobile mechanic

[Big Notes]

I agree with select55: the labor is what kills ya and it's trying to do that to me.

I have the old alternator off. What I did:

• Disconnected the ground
• Disconnected the wires to the positive and taped them off
• Removed the nut from the bolt on the upper mount
• Removed the bolt from the lower mount
• Rotated the alternator to access and remove the double spade connector from the 1 and 2 terminals
• Had to tap on the alternator mount ears to get it to move but it came out

Since I'm at the grandkids and not at the house I've had to improvise some tools but think I've managed w/o stripping anything. The hardest part of this is climbing down into the engine bay and bending over in weird positions to get to the bolts/nuts, then making some gymnastic moves to retrieve the correct tool.

Next, swap out the pulley from the old to the new and then reinstall.

[Big Notes]

The good news is that I'm getting better at this procedure. The bad news is that I think I fried my rectifier bridge and/or the regulator unit.

Now that I'm into this I found this blog that describes a lot of what I'm doing.

I followed this advice and took it to a local shop where the mechanic used his air ratchet to spin the pulley off the old alternator and put it on the new one. Back at the RV I attached the alternator to the top bracket via the long bolt, leaving it loose to move around and connect the wires.

My mistake was I did not disconnect the battery grounds (chassis and coach) and the shore power. Must have been misguided hubris. When I connected the positive battery terminal I had some pretty good arcing and sparking and was pretty sure then that I had messed up.

Once I had the ground hooked up I noticed that the alternator was pretty warm, so a little research tells me that fried diodes will allow the current to flow through the alternator constantly. So I disconnected the two battery grounds and shore power, removed the electrical connections and the alternator. That went pretty well, so I must be getting better at something!

Tomorrow I will visit one of the alternator repair places in Alexandria LA and see if I can fix my mistake w/o going too deep in the hole.

More to come!

[Piker]

If you're up to a challenge, you could rebuild the alternator yourself... i did a partial rebuild on my 22SI earlier this year:

http://www.irv2.com/forums/f125/md30...ml#post3187810

I know I know... alternator rebuild in the Allison forums. Real helpful...

There are some good youtube videos that can show you how to test each component with a multimeter... and the rebuild kits and components are CHEAP compared to new.

cheers

[Big Notes]

The alternator is in place, I ran it for a minute or so and saw a normal voltage on the meter and the belt didn't disintegrate.

I took it to Jim's Alternator and Starter in Alexandria LA this morning. Tommy, who I guess is the dude there now, works among piles of old dead alternators and starters. Ghosts of electrical devices past. He put it on his test machine, gave it a spin and tested it a few times and reported that it was in good shape.

I queried him about the overheating and he explained it thusly: it has to do with the #1 and #2 terminals that have to do with some sensing circuitry and are normally hidden under a plug. On the new alternator they are webbed together, but on the old one they are separate. So when I hooked up the stock connector it sent hot to #2 and out #1 and he claims that was what overheated things. When we were done I asked him how much I owed, and he said "nothing, next time bring me something that's broken!"

I installed it with relatively little grief other than making my old tired aching legs do things they didn't really want to do, making sure to disconnect the power first to avoid all that arcing and sparking. When my grandson got home we got the belt wrapped around the pulley, tightened things down and I give it a quick test. I'm ready to hit the road now with a hope and a prayer.

So installation went something like this:

• Disconnect the shore power and the chassis and coach ground (getting pretty darn fast at this!!!)
• Install the long upper bolt through the alternator ears and the mount, doing a balancing act bending over with a 20 lb alternator and stabbing the long bolt from the front.
• Run the nut on the upper bolt but leave the alternator so you can rotate it. I think this was a 19mm socket on the nut with a 17mm socket on the bolt.
• Install the ground wire, I think this was a 13mm socket.
• Install the positive wire, I think I used a 3/8" socket. Don't include the connector for the #1/#2 terminals.
• Install the connector for the #1/#2 spade terminals. Not sure this is needed, but it ties back to the ignition switch. I may remove it. NOTE: The connector has a key that fits in the slot on the alternator mounting part, and a lot of this was by feel with a little shop mirror assistance.
• Install the lower mounting bolt through the mounting bracket, rotating the alternator counterclockwise (from the back) until you can thread the bolt.
• Torque the mounting bolts to your best 75 foot pound guess since your torque wrench is in Colorado and you're in the boonies of Louisiana.
• Reconnect the chassis/coach/shore power and turn the AC back on. Louisiana!!!
• Rotate the tensioner and have your coworker slip the belt over the alternator pulley, and make sure the belt is in all the proper grooves. FYI this was still tricky: I was under the coach with the 1/2 inch ratchet and 3/8" reducer in the square hold on the tensioner; grandson was laying on the engine ready to slip the belt on. I had to pull the belt off to the front side of the tensioner before we were able to slide it on the alternator pulley.
• Torque the tensioner mounting bolt to your best guess at the proper foot poundage.
• Start the engine and check for proper voltage and a good rotation of the serpentine belt.
• Replace the engine cover.

OK, hope this helps someone. I'm off to bigger and better things including heading back to cool colorful Colorado Friday.

Jeff

[noserider]

Nice work and way to stay with it .

[WILDEBILL308]

Glad you got it back together. Now take a day to relax.
Bill

[ladagobago]

Originally Posted by Big Notes

[LIST]

[*]Rotate the tensioner and have your coworker slip the belt over the alternator pulley, and make sure the belt is in all the proper grooves. FYI this was still tricky: I was under the coach with the 1/2 inch ratchet and 3/8" reducer in the square hold on the tensioner; grandson was laying on the engine ready to slip the belt on. I had to pull the belt off to the front side of the tensioner before we were able to slide it on the alternator pulley. [*]Torque the tensioner mounting bolt to your best guess at the proper foot poundage.

Jeff

Jeff - Not sure why you ( I had to pull the belt off to the front side of the tensioner before we were able to slide it on the alternator pulley). The tensioner should not have to be removed. The sequence for replacement is that the Tensioner should be pulled all the way back. One way to do this is to use an extension on the ratchet or use a breaker bar. once the tensioner is fully retracted, you can tie it in place with a rope or heavy wire from above. Now the belt should be installed on all of the pulleys that are grooved. once that is finished the last pulley to roll the belt onto is the smooth pulley #8 in diagram (water pump pulley) with the smooth side of the belt. It works easy. If you use a grooved pulley as the last pulley it is too tight and may damage the belt.