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Old 07-04-2020, 07:19 AM   #1
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ISL 9 Coolant Issue

I have a 2018 ISL 9 380 Cummins motor with 14k miles. I am in the process of selling it and the buyer had fluid tests performed. All were good except the coolant system showed critical for high calcium and magnesium. The report says good be from poor water quality.

I have never added any coolant or water to the system since new. Anyone ever experience this?
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Old 07-04-2020, 08:45 AM   #2
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I believe your coach came from Tiffin with an ELC (Extended Life Coolant), something like Final Charge. If so it does not have to be checked for SCA levels, but the freeze point does need to be checked.

Have you ever had your coach serviced by an outside vendor? If so and if the freeze point was too low, the way it is raised is by adding water, but it must be distilled water. If they used regular water this might possibly account for the readings you're seeing.

I would suggest you have the cooling system drained, flushed and filled with an ELC by a qualified shop.
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Old 07-04-2020, 09:19 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BobGed View Post
I believe your coach came from Tiffin with an ELC (Extended Life Coolant), something like Final Charge. If so it does not have to be checked for SCA levels, but the freeze point does need to be checked.

Have you ever had your coach serviced by an outside vendor? If so and if the freeze point was too low, the way it is raised is by adding water, but it must be distilled water. If they used regular water this might possibly account for the readings you're seeing.

I would suggest you have the cooling system drained, flushed and filled with an ELC by a qualified shop.
Agree with Bob^^.


However, your coach is a 2018 and being that new, it seems unusual to have had the need for any service so your reply is important. Not sure what amount of calcium and magnesium constitute "critical," but neither of those elements are in distilled water, and both are found in poor quality tap water. Any addition of tap water to your system can introduce calcium and magnesium, but the amounts will depend on how much water was added.


If you have had no water added to your system, ever, I would suspect it was filled with a mixture of tap water and coolant at the factory. Regardless, the fix is the same. Drain, flush, and refill the system with new coolant and distilled water.
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Old 07-04-2020, 09:46 AM   #4
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Agree with Bob^^.


However, your coach is a 2018 and being that new, it seems unusual to have had the need for any service so your reply is important. Not sure what amount of calcium and magnesium constitute "critical," but neither of those elements are in distilled water, and both are found in poor quality tap water. Any addition of tap water to your system can introduce calcium and magnesium, but the amounts will depend on how much water was added.


If you have had no water added to your system, ever, I would suspect it was filled with a mixture of tap water and coolant at the factory. Regardless, the fix is the same. Drain, flush, and refill the system with new coolant and distilled water.
You know it's funny how time flies. His MY 2018 coach could have been delivered sometime in 2017. By now it should have been serviced at least two times even if for only an oil and filters change (this includes the six-month requirement).

It only takes one opportunity for someone to do the wrong thing.
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Old 07-04-2020, 11:33 AM   #5
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You know it's funny how time flies. His MY 2018 coach could have been delivered sometime in 2017. By now it should have been serviced at least two times even if for only an oil and filters change (this includes the six-month requirement).

It only takes one opportunity for someone to do the wrong thing.
LOL, boy does it fly!


Without knowing just what the analysis meant by "critical high levels" of calcium and magnesium, I'm speculating here but it seems really remote that such a new vehicle would have that issue. It would take a significant amount of water to raise the levels to a critical level (blind assumption), and either you would notice the loss of coolant or the services would mention it (another assumption.)


I'm of the mind to believe the original water used was not distilled, unless proved otherwise.
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Old 07-04-2020, 11:52 AM   #6
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Someone added tap water which was probably a bit on the hard side as many water sources are

There is nothing in the systems that is going to dissolve and add water hardness to the coolant

The fact that is is still is soluble is both comforting and concerning, how much laid down as Calcium Carbonate scale in the hot areas? If you have never over heated that is a plus.

Water hardness is primarily Calcium and Magnesium. Iron is considered hardness as well but hardly ever in most water supplies at high enough levels to be an issue
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Old 07-04-2020, 12:17 PM   #7
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I have had no servicing to the coolant system. It still has the original Pink antifreeze and has never had water added to it yet.
Attached Files
File Type: pdf 4VZACGFE0JCJY4522-EC-I-362954 Engine Coolant.pdf (94.1 KB, 6 views)
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Old 07-04-2020, 12:25 PM   #8
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I plan to contact Cummins 1-800 and see what they can tell me. I am sure they will tell me to do a flush but I want them to know that the system has not been touched since new. I attached the coolant report in my previous post above
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Old 07-04-2020, 03:45 PM   #9
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Further to the idea that water has been added at some time is the "warm" freeze point of -22 degrees F and 48% antifreeze. Also the "slightly cool" 220 degree F boil point. I would think it would be at least a 50/50 mixture that would have around a -35 freeze point and around 225 degree boil point?
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Old 07-04-2020, 07:38 PM   #10
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It would not surprise me if Tiffin mix their own antifreeze with just tap water to save money
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Old 07-04-2020, 07:50 PM   #11
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ISL 9 Coolant Issue

I had same issue with a lab report on my coolant after flushing system with tap water then distilled. Guessing I did not get it flushed good enough with the distilled.
I flushed system again and only used distilled.
Lab report came back with clean bill of health.

https://www.irv2.com/forums/f123/coo...ms-396231.html
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Old 07-04-2020, 10:16 PM   #12
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I checked with some friends with 2018 PowerGlide chassis and this is the coolant you should have in your coach from the factory: Final Charge Extended Life.

They further state it is supposed to be checked every six months for freeze point. The following is from the Final Charge website: Using a refractometer, or a coolant test strip, test the freeze point of Final Charge Coolant/Antifreeze/ at least two times per year. Maintain the freeze point between -24C (-11F) and -51C (-62F).

My 2017 Tiffin Phaeton on a Freightliner chassis came with Shell ELC and also requires freeze point testing every six months, however I only have it done once a year when I have the oil and filters changed.

Please keep in mind we are only here asking questions to try and help you, so the more information you can provide, the better the advice/opinions given will be.

It sounds like you purchased this coach new, and for the sake of making a point we'll assume 1/1/18 (please correct the date if it's wrong), and let's further assume the last service due was 1/1/20.

In that time period you should have had an oil and filter change twice, once on 1/1/19 and once on 1/1/20, and technically had the coolant freeze point checked four times, but let's call it twice done at the same time as the oil service.

Did you have the service done at an outside vendor such as Cummins or Freightliner? If so as part of the regular service they most likely would have checked the freeze point of your coolant, and made any necessary adjustments which may or may not have been noted on your invoice. The point is either one of these would have been opportunities for someone to add tap water to your system.

Since you're selling the coach, I would suggest holding off contacting Cummins on this issue. The first thing they're going to ask for is your ESN (Engine Serial Number), and they will make note of the ensuing conversation. While you may have lost a deal with this buyer, you could be putting a future buyer in a pretty tough position.

Instead I would suggest, as has been previously mentioned by others, you get the system drained, flushed and filled with the proper mixture of Final Charge and distilled water.

I would further suggest once you have that done and have put a few miles on the coach to have the coolant checked again, but by a different lab so they don't reference the first test. I would recommend Blackstone Labs

Good luck and I hope everything works out well for you.
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Old 07-05-2020, 05:09 AM   #13
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Either from the factory or
Bad analysis

Purple antifreeze may be mixed with tap water (some brands)
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Old 07-05-2020, 08:56 AM   #14
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Holy cow. All my years of working on cars and doing coolant flushes were never this intense. I am going to make an appointment with my local Cummins dealer for a drain/flush/service. Sounds like I really need to make sure they use distilled water and get all the old stuff out. Thanks for all the inputs and education.
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