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05-25-2020, 08:39 PM
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#1
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Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Sylvania, Ga.
Posts: 28
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ISX 650 CM871 Dropped valve in #6
Hello all.
Sorry to say that my first thread here concerns major engine troubles. While idling in my back yard coach began skipping and making unsettling cruching noises. Wife had the presence of mind to jump in and switch it off quickly. Disconnection of exhaust from DPF revealed small bits of very heavy metallic particles. Knew this could not be good. Purchased coach 6 months ago with 81k miles. Had done a bit of research here and was aware of the risk of failure with this engine but got a very nice price on coach and decided to roll the dice. After removing head discovered very rear #6 intake valve missing much of its periphery. Residual damage to the rest of the engine is slight attesting to wifes quick action and the fact that engine was idling at time of failure i suppose. Planning to rebuild with latest head and anti polishing piston/liner setup. I'm wondering if anyone here knows of any failures occuring after this latest head/liner/piston combo was installed.
Thanks,
Pete
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05-25-2020, 09:28 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Warren, Oregon
Posts: 2,559
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Bad deal, Mr_D has rebuilt his 650 3 times.
Here is another
https://www.irv2.com/forums/f123/cum...-a-401436.html
2 stroker
__________________
2006 Country Coach Inspire 360 40ft Genoa Designer Series, Samsung 197 RR
Cat C9--STEEL & COPPER Bolt Together Radiator w/ updated rubber mounting
SilverLeaf 330 Magnum 2812 PSW 2011 Ford Edge Sport-Air Force One
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05-27-2020, 06:02 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 573
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Well that's no fun at all. Yeah seems those 650's are trouble makers. I don't know of any failures with the updated head but there are others with more knowledge on the subject than me. Good luck with it, hopefully the rebuild goes well and is reliable for you.
__________________
2015 Winnebago Tour 42QD
Cummins 8.9 ISL 450
Freightliner XCL W/IFS
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05-27-2020, 06:47 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Canton, mi
Posts: 131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by asuperheat
Well that's no fun at all. Yeah seems those 650's are trouble makers. I don't know of any failures with the updated head but there are others with more knowledge on the subject than me. Good luck with it, hopefully the rebuild goes well and is reliable for you.
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The 600hp engines have had this problem also albeit not as many.
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05-27-2020, 09:10 PM
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#5
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Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Sylvania, Ga.
Posts: 28
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Picking up new parts for rebuild tomorrow to the tune of $13,900 or so. Using all original Cummins bits. Deleting the egr and dpf as well. Should have it back together in a week or so.
A couple of silver linings to this fiasco. For one I now know much more than before about how the engine bay is put together and how to access hard to get at areas for future service. I also used this occasion to remove and replace shaft seals in the leaky fan drive gearbox. It was much easier to get at with the engine disassembled. While i was at it i made a modification to the fan shroud. The lower half now unbolts so that it can be quickly dropped from the bottom and the fan blade easily removed in the event the gearbox or cooling package needs to come out.
Pete
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05-28-2020, 05:44 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Canton, mi
Posts: 131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godbee
Picking up new parts for rebuild tomorrow to the tune of $13,900 or so. Using all original Cummins bits. Deleting the egr and dpf as well. Should have it back together in a week or so.
A couple of silver linings to this fiasco. For one I now know much more than before about how the engine bay is put together and how to access hard to get at areas for future service. I also used this occasion to remove and replace shaft seals in the leaky fan drive gearbox. It was much easier to get at with the engine disassembled. While i was at it i made a modification to the fan shroud. The lower half now unbolts so that it can be quickly dropped from the bottom and the fan blade easily removed in the event the gearbox or cooling package needs to come out.
Pete
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Are you doing all the work yourself? What year and brand if coach did you purchase? Can you post some pictures of the damage and the R&R?
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05-28-2020, 06:03 PM
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#7
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Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Sylvania, Ga.
Posts: 28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbensen
Are you doing all the work yourself? What year and brand if coach did you purchase? Can you post some pictures of the damage and the R&R?
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I'm doing most of the work myself. I'm having to hire a mobile tech to machine the block for the correct liner protrusion. Cost for him to travel 65 miles and do job is $1500 so thats not so bad. Also dropped the turbo off at rebuild shop this morning. Recieved call from them this afternoon and turbo is heavily damaged from the valve fragments traveling through it. Cost to overhaul is $2650 so again, not so bad.
Pete
__________________
2011 Newmar King Aire 4574
2016 Chevy 2500 hd 4x4
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05-28-2020, 06:30 PM
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#8
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Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Sylvania, Ga.
Posts: 28
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The offending valve. I noticed that the head of this valve has much more pitting and corrosion than even the other 3 valves in this cylinder. Only reason I can figure is that it is made from a somewhat different material than the others.
Engine bay with engine stripped down and cooling fan gearbox support and shroud removed.
Lifting head off with tractor and fork extension. I made a bracket that bolts to oil pan rail of motor and allowed me to lower front of motor using a hydraulic jack to gain some headroom.
__________________
2011 Newmar King Aire 4574
2016 Chevy 2500 hd 4x4
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05-28-2020, 07:45 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2015
Location: Canton, mi
Posts: 131
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godbee
Attachment 287377
The offending valve. I noticed that the head of this valve has much more pitting and corrosion than even the other 3 valves in this cylinder. Only reason I can figure is that it is made from a somewhat different material than the others.
Attachment 287378
Engine bay with engine stripped down and cooling fan gearbox support and shroud removed.
Attachment 287380
Lifting head off with tractor and fork extension. I made a bracket that bolts to oil pan rail of motor and allowed me to lower front of motor using a hydraulic jack to gain some headroom.
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Many believe that the pits are due to corrosion caused by the acid laden soot produced by the EGR system.
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05-28-2020, 07:55 PM
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 2,183
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Im impressed
Your doing a fabulous job.
Congratulations
Keep the pictures coming [emoji106][emoji41][emoji16]
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05-28-2020, 08:39 PM
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#11
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Junior Member
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Sylvania, Ga.
Posts: 28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbensen
Many believe that the pits are due to corrosion caused by the acid laden soot produced by the EGR system.
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I'm sure that may be true but even so I can't understand how two intake valves right next to each other can be so unevenly affected. My logic is that the conditions they were subjected to could not be much different so that only leaves a difference in the properties of the materials they were constructed from.
Pete
__________________
2011 Newmar King Aire 4574
2016 Chevy 2500 hd 4x4
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05-29-2020, 06:49 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2015
Posts: 856
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Hope your tune and info are coming from some well know fellows in the trucking industry in the Atlanta area known for building bullet proof ISX engines.
I feel your on the right track since you mentioned "proper liner protrusion"
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05-29-2020, 07:19 AM
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#13
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Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2019
Location: Alberta
Posts: 1,976
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2 Stroker
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Very harsh. My sympathies to both. The 650 is well known for this problem in the trucking industry. My thoughts are that the design is past its limits and will fail again. I have been told it can be derated in power which helps. May require a new ECM. I don't have any references to this but it may be worth checking. Yes I know it is nice to have all that HP and torque available under the right foot but at what cost.
Looks like you are doing a great job.
Hope it all works out for you.
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Jeff and Annette Smith. Sparky, lemon Beagle.
2022 Chevy Equinox RS.
2007 Dutch Star
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05-29-2020, 04:56 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2012
Posts: 573
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Nothing like jumping in and getting it done, looking good! Keep us updated on the progress!
__________________
2015 Winnebago Tour 42QD
Cummins 8.9 ISL 450
Freightliner XCL W/IFS
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