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Old 01-24-2021, 12:31 PM   #1
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Exclamation Manuals for DEF Systems

My Reply is for the wide DEF Class A diesel owners with DEF Systems.



DEF Issues, I want to make a few points that may have been previously discussed as far as DEF issues. I am and have been a proponent of the owner of any machinery to have all operational, service and repair manuals for your equipment. Some folks who will read this as they previously replied to past postings, say " I am not going to do any on hands work, ect. Yes, I understand this, BUT, please understand two things.


1. Many of us will do many maintenance service tasks and repairs.


2. When you take you vehicle into a shop, MOST mechanics do not know squat about your vehicles many systems, engines, DEF, Transmissions, Air systems, Slide outs, ect. By having drawings and manuals, you can avoid mistakes, using the wrong fluids, wrong tests, adjustments, and so many other things by having the information on hand.


3. DEF, How many of you have a manual with all the many engine codes and WHAT THEY MEAN. I read where so many of you say you call some person and then they tell you. WHY DO THAT, WHY DON'T ALL OF US WHO OWN, AND OPERATE MOTOR HOMES, HAVE THE CODES AND AN EXPLANATION OF WHAT EACH CODE MEANS ??. IT IS OUR PROPERTY, YET WE DO NOT REALLY KNOW HE THE DAMN THING WORKS, WE HAVE NO MANUAL THAT TELL'S US, HEY, IF THE DEF filter gets clogged, the Exhaust gas going into the filter will be at a higher pressure than the gas going out, THIS MEANS A BLOCKAGE AND A HIGH DIFFERENTIAL AIR PRESSURE WILL BE RECEIVED AT THE ECM, This is what starts the whole Regen process, so, please be onboard and request more manuals, drawings, from your equipment builder and the sub -suppliers, Cummings, Freight Liner, Spartan, ect. If you do this, it will help us all. Now I await the Nay Sayers.
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Old 01-24-2021, 03:29 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryd13 View Post
My Reply is for the wide DEF Class A diesel owners with DEF Systems.



DEF Issues, I want to make a few points that may have been previously discussed as far as DEF issues. I am and have been a proponent of the owner of any machinery to have all operational, service and repair manuals for your equipment. Some folks who will read this as they previously replied to past postings, say " I am not going to do any on hands work, ect. Yes, I understand this, BUT, please understand two things.


1. Many of us will do many maintenance service tasks and repairs.


2. When you take you vehicle into a shop, MOST mechanics do not know squat about your vehicles many systems, engines, DEF, Transmissions, Air systems, Slide outs, ect. By having drawings and manuals, you can avoid mistakes, using the wrong fluids, wrong tests, adjustments, and so many other things by having the information on hand.


3. DEF, How many of you have a manual with all the many engine codes and WHAT THEY MEAN. I read where so many of you say you call some person and then they tell you. WHY DO THAT, WHY DON'T ALL OF US WHO OWN, AND OPERATE MOTOR HOMES, HAVE THE CODES AND AN EXPLANATION OF WHAT EACH CODE MEANS ??. IT IS OUR PROPERTY, YET WE DO NOT REALLY KNOW HE THE DAMN THING WORKS, WE HAVE NO MANUAL THAT TELL'S US, HEY, IF THE DEF filter gets clogged, the Exhaust gas going into the filter will be at a higher pressure than the gas going out, THIS MEANS A BLOCKAGE AND A HIGH DIFFERENTIAL AIR PRESSURE WILL BE RECEIVED AT THE ECM, This is what starts the whole Regen process, so, please be onboard and request more manuals, drawings, from your equipment builder and the sub -suppliers, Cummings, Freight Liner, Spartan, ect. If you do this, it will help us all. Now I await the Nay Sayers.
Not a nay sayer - manuals are great and the information is readily available. I’m just so far beyond them at this point. And while you are right about a plugged up DPF, there are so many other things that will send you to derate: could be simply a bad sensor, and sometimes it’s a complete mystery, even to the pros, hence parts swapping in an attempt to correct issues with errant codes and non-justified derates.

These systems are not adequately engineered and produced to provide reliable service as specified. That’s the problem and it’s also why anyone under warranty should remain “hands off” no matter how tempting it is to rip into it, figure it out, and fix it! And oh my how tempting it is.

As an example, mine is in derate because it thinks it’s out of DEF. But the tank is full and this isn’t the first time, nor is it an original or even previous generation def header. It’s just an unreliable system sending incorrect codes and causing unjustified derates. It’s crap!

But working on it myself would be dumb unless I was out of the emissions warranty. The chassis builder is still responsible and since a handful of sensors and key parts are all jumbled together in the def header, it would be pretty difficult to trouble shoot and repair one, other than exhaustive trial and error. Which is why even the pros have become shade-tree level parts swappers, albeit with a laptop.

And much as I agree with you in general, sometimes the machine don’t read the book. I know exactly what my codes mean, but since they are incorrect, it don’t mean squat, other than once again, this is an unreliable, poorly engineered and manufactured system...
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Old 01-24-2021, 06:02 PM   #3
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Every word you stated is correct, and I attached this to you only because you likely have the largest following on this problematic and complicated unforgiving system that lacks the means for motor home drivers with families aboard to have some leeway in a reset or other means to complete the planned trip. Thanks and best wishes in getting you a resolution you deserve.
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Old 01-24-2021, 07:26 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jerryd13 View Post
Every word you stated is correct, and I attached this to you only because you likely have the largest following on this problematic and complicated unforgiving system that lacks the means for motor home drivers with families aboard to have some leeway in a reset or other means to complete the planned trip. Thanks and best wishes in getting you a resolution you deserve.
Thank you. I don’t know about a following but it sure is nice to hear that someone gets it. I’m leaving tomorrow for my big appointment on a Tuesday at Sacramento Truck Center.

I’m leaving early in case I need a tow - I don’t want to be late and I don’t want to go through the towing exercise in rush hour traffic. I’ve been waiting for this appointment for a month, I’ve talked to them several times, they seem certain they can fix it, and all I can say is that I hope for a permanent solution but I don’t have much confidence.

Also my first round of communications to he folks in congress have apparently been summarily round filed. Giving us a break just wouldn’t be green enough I guess. But Im not giving up and I’ll continue to make noise. Where it gets any of us remains to be seen. A least RVIA responded to me.

I’ll post updates so anyone else dealing with this can gain from my experiences, or at least maybe save a step or two. Also from what I’ve read, Spartan is a little more responsive than FL so anyone trying to decide between the two on a new coach might take that into consideration.

Cheers, and wish me luck. I really don’t want to arrive on the hook (or wheel lift...)
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Old 01-24-2021, 09:28 PM   #5
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DEF

R.Wold said
Quote:
Also from what I’ve read, Spartan is a little more responsive than FL so anyone trying to decide between the two on a new coach might take that into consideration.
That's my situation. I've seriously considered upgrading from my 2004 Itasca Meridian with 139K miles to either a 2018, 2020 or possibly a new coach, but the DEF situation is causing us to consider keeping what I have. We purchased it new, and have been quite happy with it - just wanted some of the recent 'bells and whistles'. After much thinking, it might be cheaper to keep her. Besides, how would a newer coach provide a better camping experience?
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Old 02-02-2021, 09:29 PM   #6
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Not all of us are having DPF And/Or DEF problems. Probably most are NOT. There is a recall on this system on my 14 ISL. I keep as many manuals on systems as I can find. Today my furnace would not blow hot air. Of course I did not not have any manuals. But YouTube came to the rescue. If I had a manual it would have not broke down. Or had parts.
Thanks now I need another manual...must have at least a hundred on paper and pdf files now.
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Old 02-02-2021, 10:14 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by Fiesta48 View Post
Not all of us are having DPF And/Or DEF problems. Probably most are NOT. There is a recall on this system on my 14 ISL. I keep as many manuals on systems as I can find. Today my furnace would not blow hot air. Of course I did not not have any manuals. But YouTube came to the rescue. If I had a manual it would have not broke down. Or had parts.
Thanks now I need another manual...must have at least a hundred on paper and pdf files now.
What was the recall, specifically?
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Old 02-03-2021, 08:06 AM   #8
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Yep, Manuals, drawings, parts list, this is what we all should desire, not only for our own use, but to allow those OUT OF THE WAY, small RV repair folks to be able to use in as most mechanics, techs, will no nothing about some of the many systems onboard a motor home. So as an old engineering guy, I and it seems that you also, see the importance of this attitude toward owners to make this a standard part of the things the manufacturers to provide to each the RV Owner.


Thank you.
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Old 02-03-2021, 07:13 PM   #9
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You can go to Cummins Quickserve online, register then enter your engine serial # and get all the info you want for your engine. It's free
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Old 02-04-2021, 04:58 PM   #10
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Hi,I have no DEF knob on my dashboard ,its an Cummins diesel ,how can I do an regen by my zelf?
Thank you all
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Old 02-04-2021, 09:04 PM   #11
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Hi,I have no DEF knob on my dashboard ,its an Cummins diesel ,how can I do an regen by my zelf?
Thank you all
There is no operator accessible forced regen knob on a Freightliner MH chassis, like there is in trucks. The process is either done by a somewhat complicate process detailed (hopefully) in your owners manual, or with external computer controls at a shop. But you shouldn’t have to do a forced regen unless you’ve let it idle for a really long time. It should be doing regens automatically as necessary.
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Old 02-05-2021, 07:15 AM   #12
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DEF has nothing to do with regen, its the DPF that regens happen to. Def is injected to lower nox emissions and the dpf collects the soot. The regen then burns off the soot to clear the dpf.
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Old 02-05-2021, 11:39 AM   #13
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DEF has nothing to do with regen, its the DPF that regens happen to. Def is injected to lower nox emissions and the dpf collects the soot. The regen then burns off the soot to clear the dpf.
Right - I’m sure he’s referring to something like the pic below (found on truck chassis). There are also engine diagnostic devices (like the OTR products) that have a forced regen function. But nothing on the dash of most class A coaches. But there is a process for FL chassis detailed in the owners manual.
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