Oat anti freeze testing

[DAJO]

What can I use to test freeze point on the OAT antifreeze?

Dave

[Pigman1]

Antifreeze and battery refractometer always gives the correct info and is very easy to use. Fahrenheit ATC Ade Advanced Optics Glycol Antifreeze/Battery Fluid Refractometer - Amazon.com

[450Donn]

A simple bulb type antifreeze tester is really all you need to test it. They can be had at just about any auto parts store for less than 10 dollars.

[spike45]

Originally Posted by DAJO

What can I use to test freeze point on the OAT antifreeze?

Dave

Which OAT coolant, Dave? If it is the CAT ELC type, then a refractometer will work well. Many of the ball-type hydrometers are notorious for false readings, especially the pocket types that look like an eye dropper.

If you are using Final Charge, you have a problem. The same for Shell Utra, Fleetguard ES Compleat OAT and Chevron Delo Nitrite-free. These are the second generation OAT coolants that employ only a mix of organic acids for cavitations pitting protection. The oat acid content is very high rendering refractometers useless at accurately indicating the true freeze point. The high oat content skews the freeze point lower than the actual.

The current crop of refractometers have their freeze scale calibrated against a coolant solution based on a 50/50 solutions of antifreeze concentrate/water. The new generation of oat coolant concentrate is around 88% glycol, 12% oat acids. Under stsndasrd definition of ASTM, these are not truly antifreeze concentrate but a premix. Standard antifreeze concentrate is 96% glycol/4% water. This the approximate definition of ASTM antifreeze concentrate.

Why all this technical stuff? No refractometer and no hydrometer can accurately tell what you want to know. The acid content will cause you to believe the freeze point is lower than it really is.

Have you refilled low coolant with anything else except the coolant in question?

[DAJO]

Originally Posted by spike45

Which OAT coolant, Dave? If it is the CAT ELC type, then a refractometer will work well. Many of the ball-type hydrometers are notorious for false readings, especially the pocket types that look like an eye dropper.

If you are using Final Charge, you have a problem. The same for Shell Utra, Fleetguard ES Compleat OAT and Chevron Delo Nitrite-free. These are the second generation OAT coolants that employ only a mix of organic acids for cavitations pitting protection. The oat acid content is very high rendering refractometers useless at accurately indicating the true freeze point. The high oat content skews the freeze point lower than the actual.

The current crop of refractometers have their freeze scale calibrated against a coolant solution based on a 50/50 solutions of antifreeze concentrate/water. The new generation of oat coolant concentrate is around 88% glycol, 12% oat acids. Under stsndasrd definition of ASTM, these are not truly antifreeze concentrate but a premix. Standard antifreeze concentrate is 96% glycol/4% water. This the approximate definition of ASTM antifreeze concentrate.

Why all this technical stuff? No refractometer and no hydrometer can accurately tell what you want to know. The acid content will cause you to believe the freeze point is lower than it really is.

Have you refilled low coolant with anything else except the coolant in question?

I have Final Charge antifreeze, I used the 50/50 premix. When refilling during the change over to OAT there has be some of the old antifreeze left over. It is getting unusually cold here (Indianapolis) and I wanted to test it. I have not added anything but Final charge.

[DAJO]

Originally Posted by DAJO

I have Final Charge antifreeze, I used the 50/50 premix. When refilling during the change over to OAT there has be some of the old antifreeze left over. It is getting unusually cold here (Indianapolis) and I wanted to test it. I have not added anything but Final charge.

Gary
After doing more research on Final Charge web sight and reading your other post today. Final charge released a test kit in March of this year that contains test strips and refractometer. They claim the strips test for OAT levels. Have you seen this?

[Don_SueB]

Cummins shows an OAT test strip in their literature:

Don

[Don_SueB]

And, a refractometer too:


Part number CC8998 for the OAT one.

I priced it and it's not cheap!

Don

[spike45]

The small residual actually boosted your glycol content thus your still good to go. You would only be at risk of freeze burst damage if your glycol content were below 40%. At or above that coolant may become slushy but never cause burst damage from expansion freezing like water does.

[spike45]

Originally Posted by Don_SueB

And, a refractometer too:

Attachment 53105
Part number CC8998 for the OAT one.

I priced it and it's not cheap!

Don

Thanks for reminding me, Don. That was in the works to be released after I retired. You do not need it if you are careful to always refill with ES Compleat OAT as it is only calibrated to work with that coolant. It might work with Final Charge..... Might! Or might not.

[spike45]

Originally Posted by Don_SueB

Cummins shows an OAT test strip in their literature:
Attachment 53104
Don

Don,

That test kit does not actually test for the OAT trio. It actually tests to determine if ES Compleat OAT has been mixed with coolant containing nitrite or mixed with some other. Don't waste your money.

Final Charge has had a strip test kit but we (Fleetguard) could never find one for sale. Personally, if I had doubts about the OAT content of Final Charge, I would just put in a quart of their Extender Liquid.

[Don_SueB]

Gary,

It's not very clear in Cummin's literature is it? I just bought a bunch of ES Compleat OAT to change as soon as I've assembled all new hoses to replace my current ones and get a couple of days off. I'll just be careful with any replacement in the future after my change. I don't think I'll get close to 300,000 more miles with my RV to need the extender.
It sure would be nice to know the compatibility of Final Charge with ES Compleat OAT and if test strips and refractometers were usable for either.

Don

[spike45]

Originally Posted by Don_SueB

Gary,

It's not very clear in Cummin's literature is it? I just bought a bunch of ES Compleat OAT to change as soon as I've assembled all new hoses to replace my current ones and get a couple of days off. I'll just be careful with any replacement in the future after my change. I don't think I'll get close to 300,000 more miles with my RV to need the extender.
It sure would be nice to know the compatibility of Final Charge with ES Compleat OAT and if test strips and refractometers were usable for either.

Don

There have been no compatibility studies to prove cavitation protection is maintained while mixing any of the nitrite-free OAT coolants. Fleetguard uses three specific acids. Final Charge uses one or two of the same but the third is different. The percentage of each organic inhibitor acid differs, as well. Otherwise, I do not think anything adverse will happen if you mix the two or any two of the following: Shell Ultra, ES Compleat OAT, Final Charge or Chevron Delo Nitrite-Free. The safest is to stick with a product. Final Charge is the easiest to find at truck stops and many auto and truck parts distributors. ES Compleat OAT is available from Cummins distributors or call 800-223-4583 and ask Customer Assistance to tell you the nearest Fleetguard distributor to your location. Not every distributor will have the OAT product but may well have the predecessor, ES Compleat EG. Since I have no experience with Final Charge test kit, I can only guess that it will work with their product for sure and doubtful with any other. Due to the high OAT inhibitor content, standard refractometers cannot accurately measure freeze point. Fleetguard's OAT refractometer likely will not measure it either but may as the % inhibitor level is nearly the same for Final Charge and ES Compleat OAT. That is a lot of money to spend to know the freeze point.

If you have coolant loss, topping off with the same product will do the most for restoring the freeze point when the system is full. The only thing that can throw the freeze point off is the use of silicon rubber coolant hose. Silicon rubber will let water escape the hose surface through osmosis. Water evaporates through the hose wall into the atmosphere. This will show up as coolant loss. Refilling with more premix will, over time, increase the % of antifreeze thus the freeze point drops further. Not likely to happen with the low miles that the average motorhome achieves. We only saw this on some mining truck cooling systems where the only coolant loss was attributed to the hose issue. Changing to coolant hose made of EPDM (Gates green stripe for straight hose, Blue Strip for molded hoses) will stop that problem. EPDM is much less expensive and has nearly the same life expectancy. EPDM is more difficult to remove from a metal stem than silicon rubber. However, silicon rubber hose requires special hose clamps that must be tightened with an inch-pound torque wrench to prevent overtightening. Silicon rubber hose in HD on-highway trucks is responsible for more coolant loss than any other condition found in these vehicles.

[Randy125]

Gary if I remember correctly that Cummins recommends using a refractometer for testing antifreeze ?