Community Forums

RVingDutchman · 02-15-2017, 01:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jleamo1

Ed, Fass will guide you to the correct pump for your application. Everything else will be custom. Don't panic its really not that bad. I gave them HP and torque, they confirmed the pump model. I installed Fass part number FA D08 95G. This is the pump recommended by them for my HP/torque combination.

My biggest problem was as my primary filter would have the slightest blockage the coach would buck, and I mean slight blockage! I cut every filter open expecting something horrifying, never saw much to be concerned with and my lift pump and fuel lines were all new. The system was just too large with the distance from the fuel tank to the engine, drawing fuel through a 10 micron filter for that little factory pump (on the back of the CAPS pump)to manage, so I gave it some help. I figured if I didn't do something soon the CAPS pump was going to fail. The Davco seemed like a good investment as the trucks I was a custom to working on always had them.

Mackwrench, I bypassed the factory primary filter due to the check valve built into the inlet side of it. I put one inline at the tank now, so there is always fuel in the entire system rather then risking a dry pump situation.
Check valve part number; https://www.summitracing.com/parts/sum-220194b

Thanks jleamo Idid not have a chance yet to do so but I certainly will, makes sense to ask the manufacturer.

I was already figuring to eliminate one of the rigs filters if I would use the pump system with the double filter/water/air separator. Too many filters is not good either!

Thanks for the help, I will let you all know what happens.

Regards,

Ed

Smitty77 · 02-15-2017, 04:19 PM

I felt I had honest and extremely competent service and support from Brazel's. So don't be shy to call and walk thru your problem, and way's approach this. Jon and Alan were top notch.

I ended up remaining with my stock filters, due to the quality install by Country Coach - but each coach is different

!

Best of luck to you, and keep us in the loop,
Smitty

RVingDutchman · 02-17-2017, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Smitty77

I felt I had honest and extremely competent service and support from Brazel's. So don't be shy to call and walk thru your problem, and way's approach this. Jon and Alan were top notch.

I ended up remaining with my stock filters, due to the quality install by Country Coach - but each coach is different

!

Best of luck to you, and keep us in the loop,
Smitty

So I phoned the very nice guys in Marthasville and they advised me to get a 95GLN unit, so since they don't have the FA D08 095 anymore as someone suggested I had to get the T D08 095 which is actually for a Dodge PU but all I have to change is one plug on the wiring harness and make it a lot shorter.
The brackets included should work fine just got to look for a good spot to mount it!!!

I think I should have no problem doing this myself, no high pressure hoses to be made up and the power source is nearby.
So I see no real problem. However the dude at the diesel shop (Brad

) was very helpful and willing to help if I needed it!

I will keep you all informed how it turns out.

Much appreciate the help sofar

Ed

TR4 · 02-17-2017, 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RVingDutchman

I think I should have no problem doing this myself, no high pressure hoses to be made up and the power source is nearby.
So I see no real problem. However the dude at the diesel shop (Brad

) was very helpful and willing to help if I needed it!

I will keep you all informed how it turns out.

Much appreciate the help sofar

Ed

Ed, jleamo1 gave a good write up on this thread on how to wire up a relay to fool the ecm. Also, make sure the power to the pump is controlled by the ignition. On Smitty's pump they used the fan controller for the 12 volt signal. I used the the power from my "school bus pump" that I no longer use. It's a fused 12 gauge wire. It can also be used as a signal wire for a relay to the pump (hope this makes sense).

I've been very happy with my Fass pump install and want to thank Smitty again for all his research on this project. I came across his original thread on his upgrade to the Fass pump. I then realized my lift was starting to fail. When starting, it would run for about ten seconds and die. After restarting it would run as normal. After an inspection of the lift pump I noticed a slight leak. Smitty recommend calling Jon at Brazel's. Jon was very helpful, sent me the Fass pump, and explained the installation. I later installed an Isspro fuel pressure gauge and can now monitor my fuel filters.

I've only put about four thousand miles on the upgrade. First thing I noticed after the install was the motors idle was smoother. I also noticed grade pulling was improved. Fuel mileage improved by two tenths (calculated by pencil, not computer). Note, this is over a four thousand mile season, we'll see if the improved mileage continues.

Smitty also recommended installing a Pyrometer. I found that when I drive, letting the transmission do the shifting, my exhaust gas temperatures will climb to over 1350 deg. before the transmission downshifts. These temperatures will damage the motor. I now do a lot more downshifting to keep temperatures under 1250 deg..

Smitty also recommended using Opti-lube for extra lubrication of the CAPS pump. I'm using the XL....Opti-Lube XL Extreme Lubricant | The Best Diesel Fuel Additive for Ultimate Lubricity
I don't know if the Opti-lube or the Fass pump or both contributed to the increase in mileage.

Bill

slickest1 · 02-19-2017, 12:54 PM

As usual I am late to the party. I really feel for you on this expensive issue that no rv'er really needs. I have had 1Caps pump failure. They rebuilt my pump at a cost of $2500. It has been running great since then .
Reading on here about the fass pump upgrade sounds like a great idea. I will definitely look into doing that.
I didn't read every post so excuse me if I duplicate any info.
One thing I haven't seen addressed is fuel lines. I had an issue years back with a truck and we went through everything and then found it was a bad fuel line that the interior of the line had broken down and caused a restriction. That would be a bad scenario for a Caps pump. If you can't find any other issue causing fuel starvation it may be worth a look.

funjnt · 02-20-2017, 04:29 AM

Ditto that Slickest. We had a 550 flat bed that when they put the bed on the body company kinked the fuel line on the tank. It took about four years before the lines became soft enough to start restriction and also got hot enough. It was an intermittent problem and no codes would reflect this condition. It took a near no start condition we limped in into a ford dealer on 95 in sc and they actually traced the lines complete and found the issue. And yes, some lines can deteriorate and soften the compound and restrict flow.

I am also in line to install this upgrade, fass pump on our Allure.

Waiter21 · 02-20-2017, 01:48 PM

I'm new, but doing some research on buying a 2002 Allegro that has the 8.3 ISC Cummins.

As I understand it, the Fass pump system will deliver fuel to the CAPS at about 16psi, continously.

Is this OK? Is it OK to put 16 psi pressure on the fuel intake of the CAPS.

https://www.amazon.com/D08-095G-Tita.../dp/B003ZBW15S

..

MnTom · 02-20-2017, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Waiter21

I'm new, but doing some research on buying a 2002 Allegro that has the 8.3 ISC Cummins.

As I understand it, the Fass pump system will deliver fuel to the CAPS at about 16psi, continously.

Is this OK? Is it OK to put 16 psi pressure on the fuel intake of the CAPS.

https://www.amazon.com/D08-095G-Tita.../dp/B003ZBW15S

..

Actually, that would be a great thing. What causes most problems with the CAPS pump and the VP44 is low fuel flow. By using higher pressure you are going to keep circulating fuel for cooling purposes.

funjnt · 02-21-2017, 04:37 AM

I hate to play devils advocate, but I have been thinking about this and have a simple question. So, in our stock set up the lift pump is inline with a check valve. When the lift pump is pumping the check valve closes and allows fuel to pressurize to the injection pump. Ok got that. When the lift pump stops pumping the injection pump pulls its own fuel through the check valve thus by passing the lift pump as there would be no flow through the inoperable pump, got it. Now, we put a new pump inline before our lift pump and it will pump through the check valve, ok. What if the new pump fails? That will cause an immediate loss of fuel to the injection and stock lift pump as all the fuel comes through this line. So, should we put a bypass line around the Fass or new fuel pump with a check valve for this occasion? Or, even a valved bypass to allow manual bypass of new pump. Check valve makes more sense to me....

jleamo1 · 02-21-2017, 08:26 AM

funjnt, correct, with the Fass pump if it were to fail you would stop all fuel to the CAPS pump, this would cause the engine to stall immediately, rather than run as it would have prior with little to no fuel supply. I believe the no fuel and a quick stall would be better than low flow and over heating the pump while operating the coach with an unknown low fuel supply. I have a gauge on the dash monitoring fuel pressure between the last filter and the CAPS pump, just in case...Plus it can be used to see what condition the filters are in.
My Fass pump does not flow fuel through the existing Cummins lift pump. Per Cummins the check valve would fail if attempted to do so, therefore those ports are plugged on the factory lift pump. The factory lift pump only acts as a manifold now for returned fuel from the CAPS pump or Cylinder head, by Cummins design if the CAPS pump or cylinder head have too much fuel they will return it to the tank via the factory lift pump.
My fuel schematic is as follows.
Tank,
one way check valve (to keep fuel in the lines and pump, so no dry starts on the FASS pump)
Fuel water separator
Fass Pump
Secondary filter, T in the line after the secondary filter before CAPS for gauge sending unit.
CAPS

jleamo1 · 02-21-2017, 08:35 AM

Waiter21, the factory Cummins lift pump puts out 8-15 PSI to the CAPS pump on start up then goes into Bypass. When I did my homework I spoke to an Injection pump rebuilder, after a rebuild they test a reman CAPS pump to 25 PSI of fuel supply while on the bench operating, all throughout the test. At the very end they do a suction test to make sure the internal pump is drawing adequate fuel. Remember what it doesn't need it returns to tank.

TR4 · 02-21-2017, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jleamo1

funjnt, correct, with the Fass pump if it were to fail you would stop all fuel to the CAPS pump, this would cause the engine to stall immediately, rather than run as it would have prior with little to no fuel supply.
CAPS

I've always wondered if this would happen. I've used other electric pumps that I could draw fuel through them when not running. I called Fass and was told you can draw fuel through the pump if it fails. So, if the motor was running, and the Fass pump failed, the gear pump on the CAPS should be able to draw fuel through Fass pump to the accumulator pump. This would keep the motor running. If you had a fuel pressure gauge, you would see you had a Fass pump problem. At this point you could troubleshoot the problem before shutting down the motor.

Now I'm going by what the Fass rep told me, in theory it should work. At least the motor won't just shut down. When I take my RV out of storage I'll start it, bring the idle up, and pull the fuse. I won't be doing this for a couple of months, so if anyone else with this system wants to give it a try......???

I'll report back my findings.

Bill

jleamo1 · 02-22-2017, 05:29 AM

Bill, not me buddy! With all of the problems I had a few years ago with deteriorated fuel lines and a poor fuel delivery system design to begin with, my CAPS pump is on borrowed time as far as I am concerned, too risky.

Waiter21 · 02-22-2017, 07:23 AM

Followup Thoughts - question for Smitty77, jleamo, and others.

2002 Freightliner with 8.3 ISC. Possible Lift Pump and filter modification.

Rather than replace the original Cummins lift pump, filters, etc, I might consider this modification, BUT, I don't know what I'm talking about so need some input on this. (how did Smitty77 do his?)

Leave the existing lift pump, filters, and plumbing in place. But it will basically be unplugged electrically (so pump won't run), and the fuel supply feed and filter out hoses / tubes to the CAPS will be disconnected and plugged.

Refer to the drawing:

Disconnect and plug the Lift pump fuel supply at/near the fuel tank (#1, shown in red)

Disconnect the supply tube that runs between the water filter and the CAPS (Supply to CAPS shown in red). Plug the filter end of this.

Install a new Fass left pump / filter assembly (T D08 095G) near the fuel tank where it can be easily serviced.

https://www.amazon.com/D08-095G-Tita.../dp/B003ZBW15S

Plumb the Fass assembly into the tank supply and vent return lines.

Run a new fuel supply hose (tube) from the pump assy back to the engine. Connect this to the CAPS Supply (where the old tube was removed)

#10 in the photo says its a fuel return line to the tank. Leave this connected so the CAPS can return to the tank.

Wire the Fass pump so it runs anytime the ignition is ON.

Wire a Lift Pump relay to trick the ECM into thinking the original pump is running.

I would wire a small 6psi pressure sensor at the Fass output (to the CAPS) to a warning light that shows if the Fass pump is not supplying pressure to the CAPS

..