Community Forums

wb7auk · 01-27-2014, 05:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spizzer

Art, I think that is good advice. Anything else is just somebody's opinion.

Thanks,

Jeff

Jeff,
When it comes to getting meaningful information on filters it is very hard
to come by. What you will find without to much trouble is self serving or someones misguided opinion that at best is misleading in most cases.
A lot of the test that I have seen are a whole lot of smoke and mirrors such as using a low end filter and matching it up to another high end filter to show a difference or testing for things that in the real world the filter would almost never see. The other thing is seldom do these test indicate what method is used to arrive at the results and as you pointed out the construction of the filter is important.
Be careful of the term high efficiency as it is use rather loosely and means different things to the different filter companies.
The term normal rating is a funny one which means the filter will catch some of what you want some of the time. Absolute rating means it will catch a high percent of what you want most of the time at some level normally higher than you think.
Cat filters are built like a tank but as to high efficiency that is questionable, Donaldson and Fleet guard rank up there as good filters but one needs to look at each one to select what works for you.
Wix and Baldwin also have good filters but again you need to do your home work in selecting.

def · 01-29-2014, 07:17 PM

Again, UOA will reveal filtration performance. Ask for particle count and size distfibution.

Cat · 01-29-2014, 07:52 PM

Just for clarification you can't run a particle count on engine oil. But the oil sample will tell you the amount of sulphur and oxidation, and the additive package on top of the wear metals and contamination-silica in the oil. Particle counts can be run on trans, oils that can be seen through by the device, engine oil is just too dark for accurate numbers.

calhyatt · 02-05-2014, 08:11 AM

As I have first hand knowledge on clean oil and HUEI pump failures, I have decided to change oil on my 3126B at 6 months or 6000 miles. The tech that replaced my HUEI pump and cleaned out the contamination in the entire system stated that the oil was the problem and to change it often... never to exceed 6000 mi. I believe him and will continue to use that schedule. Just my observations on this thread..

moisheh · 02-05-2014, 03:44 PM

calyhatt: Before your pump failure how long were you going between oil changes? Sorry to hear of your problem.

calhyatt · 02-06-2014, 07:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moisheh

calyhatt: Before your pump failure how long were you going between oil changes? Sorry to hear of your problem.

I was using the 1000 gallon rule. 8000-8500. I now use my rule. 6 months/6000 miles. Oil is cheaper than hard parts. People should know that the HUEI fuel delivery/valve train system depends on a continuous supply of clean, highly pressurized oil. I found out the hard way. I have even stepped up my oil change intervals on my 2006 Ford F-350 with a 6.0 diesel. It uses the same type of fuel delivery system. Just my own personal way of dealing with the issue.
Regards,
Cal

moisheh · 02-06-2014, 07:48 AM

callyhat: If this were a Cummins I would think it was overkill but I have come to realize that the HEUI is a very poor system with zero tolerance for either dirty oil or oil starvation. If you are correct then most C7 users will also have failures! There are not many modern vehicles with a 6000 mile interval. I also wonder if the oil capacity has something to do with the pump failure. Our oil pans originally held 22 qts. not 19. If a C7 uses some oil ( mine does not) then the oil level could easily drop another quart. Is that enough oil???

Airstreamer6 · 02-06-2014, 08:23 AM

http://www.cumminsforum.com/forum/3rd-gen-powertrain/74928-installing-additional-fuel-filters-gdp-w-cat-2-micron-fuel-water-sep.html

For those who enjoy reading about fuel filters, microns, cat vs others, etc and etc.

wb7auk · 02-06-2014, 08:34 AM

Moisheh,
The main problem is the system demands very clean oil and fuel or else.
Cat has changed the fuel filter to a absolute rating of 4 micron's the trouble is
there is few filters out there that meet this rating.
On the oil filters one runs into the same problem, finding a filter that has a absolute
rating of 15 micron's or less so one is left with more changes than other engines.
One has to be careful when a filter company claims their filter is a replacement as in
a lot of cases their rating is higher than what is required.

calhyatt · 02-06-2014, 10:16 AM

Moisheh, I don't know anything about the C-7. I have a 3126B, 22 qts of oil during service of which the engine blows out the first quart the first time you hit highway speeds. I never have had to add oil to my engine between oil changes. I do know that I don't want to repeat the failure and get the HUEI system replaced again and the entire engine flushed out due to metal contamination from the failed pump. The pump was cheap compared to the rest of the damage it caused. Luckily my injectors were not damaged and could be returned to service. My fuel filters and oil filters are always supplied by Freightliner. As the second owner of this motorhome I have the records from day one from the previous owner so I do know the history of my engine. 80000 miles and the pump failed. Truly a shame that this robust engine has an achillies heel. Change your oil often...Hold your breath when you turn the key and drive the crap out of it when it lights off.
As far as the oil loss, there are so many sensors and aural warnings and lights, I suspect you would figure out its time to stop unless you were deaf and/or visually impared.
Good luck with your unit.
Regards,
Cal

2 Stroker · 02-06-2014, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calhyatt

I was using the 1000 gallon rule. 8000-8500. I now use my rule. 6 months/6000 miles. Oil is cheaper than hard parts. People should know that the HUEI fuel delivery/valve train system depends on a continuous supply of clean, highly pressurized oil. I found out the hard way. I have even stepped up my oil change intervals on my 2006 Ford F-350 with a 6.0 diesel. It uses the same type of fuel delivery system. Just my own personal way of dealing with the issue.
Regards,
Cal

I'm with Cal. I also have an 06 Ford F350 PSD and use Amsoil Syn 5w40 with an oil by-pass and ONLY use Motorcraft filters (oil-fuel) and even with the by-pass still change the oil at 5000mi because of the way the injectors shear the oil. My Cat C9 needs 34qts of oil and I will use only Cat filters and change at 5000mi. I have been a service oiler, heavy construction for 36 years and pull oil samples on every oil change and send into Halton now Peterson Machinery. This is the only way to tell what is going on with a motor, good or bad.
2 stroker

moisheh · 02-06-2014, 06:06 PM

Art: Are you sue the cat 1R1807 is 15 microns? Donaldson make a high efficiency oil filter for the C7. It is 15 microns with 99% efficiency. part # ELF7483.

wb7auk · 02-06-2014, 06:20 PM

Moisheh,

As I recall the 1r1807 filter is a 20 micron normal rated filter that has a 25 micron
absolute rating. (I can go look it up to make sure if you want) keep in mind Cat does
not rate their filters using the normal rating.
Yes the Donaldson ELF7483 is a good filter at a absolute rating of 15 microns it also
does a fair job taking out stuff in the 7 to 10 micron range as it gets used a little.

moisheh · 02-06-2014, 06:32 PM

Here is a blurb from cat about filters.
http://australia.cat.com/cda/files/3...%20ratings.pdf
I would love to take apart a 1R1807 Cat oil filter and then compare it to a regular Donaldson. I am betting they are identical as Donaldson and Cat are partners in the plant that makes Cat filters! It also appears that every filter mfr. uses a different methodology to test filters. Even then these test are lab tests not real world. The lab uses low constant pressure whereas in the real world the pressure fluctuates. Lots of hype from everyone!