Another save your HEUI tip

[wb7auk]

You hit the nail on the head about lab test, low pressure, controlled temp, no vibration,
single or muliti-pass (not allows stated) and it goes on and on.
But one deals with the cards as they fall.

[wb7auk]

Donaldson also has some filters listed as replacements that I would not use so you just have to check each one out to be somewhat safe.

Case in point: look up a 1R0739 on Donaldson, they list two different filters for
a Cat 3126B.
The good one is 15 microns BUT the other one is 40 microns why install any filter with that rating on this engine.(might even be the cause of failures on these engines who knows)

[wb7auk]

Moisheh,
http://parts.cat.com/cda/files/30228...EHJ0068-02.pdf

This is a link to the 1r1807 filter spec's

[WILDEBILL308]

I have done a bunch of reading on the problems with the HUEI system on the Cat C-7. In all the cases the owner was running regular oil not synthetic. It was also pointed out that the HUEI system needs to be kept as clean as possible inside. I think I would run the new High efiencey filters such as the Cat 1R-1807 and 1R-1808 filters contain an improved, higher efficiency filter media. The Cat 1R-1807 and 1R-1808 filters offer better filtration efficiency than standard oil filters, improved engine cleanliness and a longer component life. This media is designed to increase contaminant capturing efficiency while maintaining excellent dirt holding capacity characteristics.
The other thing I noted was the bearings in the pump had failed from inadequate lubercation. This tells me I would run a synthetic oil to better lubricate the pump bearings. I would run Mobil 1 or Rotella T-6 5-40 synthetic oil.
You need to have oil pressure as soon as possible to the bearings in the pump.
Bill

[Cat]

Many of the HEUI bearing failures were from the main shaft deflection under the high pressures. This caused uneven loading of the bearings that supported the shaft. Later pumps have a larger shaft to prevent the shaft deflection. The high effiency filters are recommended by Cat for the HEUI engines both 6 cylinders and the V8,V12s.

[RinkersRanch]

There is a difference in fuel filter design and construction. High Efficiency and Ultra High Efficiency filtration has been attained by most filter manufacturers. But just obtaining optimum filtration is only part of the requirement of very efficient fuel filters.

If you filter at a low micron, (2 micron for instance) the filter will fill with contaminates rapidly if not enough filter media is used. There must be enough filter media inside the filter to capture all the contaminates and prevent premature plugging.

The filter media is pleated and when the pleats compress together some filtering media is lost. The pleats must be kept separate to allow all the media to be used.

The media must also withstand the maximum pressure differential across the filter so as not to rupture and pass captured containments into the fuel system. New fuel transfer pumps can generate up to 100psi. It takes a very strong filter media not to rupture at a 100 psi pressure drop across the media.

Filter manufacturing using a steel center tube creates the possibility of left over metal shavings in the outlet of the filter. The same problem occurs with a steel filter base.

Caterpillar fuel filters address all of these issues and have since about 2000. Nomenclature on the filter can help determine the filtering efficiency. Fuel filters rated at High Efficiency are 4 micron Absolute filters. Fuel filters without this label are standard efficiency which is 15 micron Nominal filtration. Ultra High Efficiency fuel filters are 2 micron absolute filters.
('Absolute' filtration is 98% efficient at capturing the rated particles)
('Nominal' filtration is 50% efficient at capturing the rated particles)

I have attached a couple of Cat pamphlets that describe Cat's manufacturing of fluid filters and some information on filter micron ratings. You might look at filter manufacturing this way. . . . If a (insert non cat mfg here) fails, you might stop purchasing those filters.. If a Cat filter fails to do its job, you might stop purchasing Cat engines or equipment. Cat has a lot riding on manufacturing the best filter possible to use on its equipment. Oh, and yes, I did work for Caterpillar for over 40 years, and I probably have more information on filtration and fluids than you ever want to know. Oh and yes I bleed yellow when cut. I have been retired since 07 and have no vested interest in selling Caterpillar products. But I would like to do all I can to help you keep your Cat engines running trouble free as long as possible. I do know what it takes to do that, and would like to help anyone wanting help. I have known of Cat engines with over a half million miles on them, with only proper maintenance. I also know of a couple of million mile engines with a bearing roll in at 500k and proper maintenance. I have also seen fuel system failures as soon as within 5000 miles, without proper maintenance.
OK, I'll stop for now.

[moisheh]

Wildebill: Your logic re synthetic oil usage is twisted. One cannot prove a positive with a negative." For instance I could say that reading about the pump failures I noticed that none of them used additive XYZ. Therefore if you use XYZ you will not have a failure" That is FALSE . For starters I would bet that less than 1% of Cat C7 owners ( including buses and Ag applications) use synthetic oil. So your sampling for data is skewed. I am sure the Cat filter is a good filter but both Donaldson and Fleetguard make high Ccat and see if there is any difference. Rinkers ranch: Thank you for that information. Can you explain why Cat has so many problems with the HEUI system. There have been posts from owners who had early failures and after having a cat dealer do the repairs they had another failure. The fix is very expensive. I have to wonder why Cat did not correct the problem. Although I have read that the new pumps are improved I have yet to see anything official from cat. Could just be an internet rumor. Again: Thanks for your "inside knowledge".

[WILDEBILL308]

Moisheh,
Thank you for proving my point that the use of synthetic oil could be beneficial to owners running Cat engines with HUEI pumps. All posted failures were with regular oil. That is a fact.
I would run the Cat recommended filtersCat 1R-1807 and 1R-1808.
I think it would be interesting to run a comparison between 2 coaches identical except one runs conventional oil and one runs synthetic oil either Mobil 1 5-40 Turbo Diesel Truck or Rotella T-6 5-40. I would like to see an oil sample pulled every 2000 miles just to see what is going on in the different engines.
Bill

[Don and Kim]

Many of the HEUI bearing failures were from the main shaft deflection under the high pressures. This caused uneven loading of the bearings that supported the shaft. Later pumps have a larger shaft to prevent the shaft deflection. The high effiency filters are
by Cat for the HEUI engines both 6 cylinders and the V8,V12s.

When did the "improved" pumps show up in production?