New Measures to Protect Your HEUI Pump

[Jim_HiTek]

"Small monitor"...jeese. That's huge and would cover up my nice 7" GPS screen. Not sure where I could put that giant thing on my dash.

I'm wondering what the Silverleaf would gain owners in regards to the HEUI failure. I thought it was a catastrophic failure that happened when an internal worn part finally broke into pieces grinding up a bunch of other metal parts and pushing them into the fuel rail?

I've looked at all those measured and calculated readings on the Silverleaf but didn't see anything about fuel rail pressure. Or HEUI rotation speed or anything. Maybe I missed it.

Could someone clue me in to what the Silverleaf would display that would help prevent a HEUI failure or give the driver warning of an impending HEUI failure?

Thanks!

[DHM]

Originally Posted by Jim_HiTek

"Small monitor"...jeese. That's huge and would cover up my nice 7" GPS screen. Not sure where I could put that giant thing on my dash.

I'm wondering what the Silverleaf would gain owners in regards to the HEUI failure. I thought it was a catastrophic failure that happened when an internal worn part finally broke into pieces grinding up a bunch of other metal parts and pushing them into the fuel rail?

I've looked at all those measured and calculated readings on the Silverleaf but didn't see anything about fuel rail pressure. Or HEUI rotation speed or anything. Maybe I missed it.

Could someone clue me in to what the Silverleaf would display that would help prevent a HEUI failure or give the driver warning of an impending HEUI failure?

Thanks!

Some people have talked about white smoke, intermittent injector failure for a few hundred miles prior to total failure of the HEUI pump.

I use max power accelerating onto the express way and watch my torque output. It is usually in the 830-850 range (860 @1440 rpm) at the right gear and RPM range. Also, watching for abnormal temperatures of air intake (possible turbine failure), etc.

If the engine is starting to run rough and not produce torque, the silver leaf will show that.

It’s not perfect, but helps to see engine health.

[DHM]

Originally Posted by Jim_HiTek

"Small monitor"...jeese. That's huge and would cover up my nice 7" GPS screen. Not sure where I could put that giant thing on my dash.

I'm wondering what the Silverleaf would gain owners in regards to the HEUI failure. I thought it was a catastrophic failure that happened when an internal worn part finally broke into pieces grinding up a bunch of other metal parts and pushing them into the fuel rail?

I've looked at all those measured and calculated readings on the Silverleaf but didn't see anything about fuel rail pressure. Or HEUI rotation speed or anything. Maybe I missed it.

Could someone clue me in to what the Silverleaf would display that would help prevent a HEUI failure or give the driver warning of an impending HEUI failure?

Thanks!

The Silver Leaf engine monitor is a windows based computer program. You can use any size monitor you want. You can display a lot or as little as you want. It’s totally customizable to your desire.

You can buy the worlds smallest computer monitor and put it wherever you want. I’ve seen people put the monitor overhead along the A pillar or hanging above the center of the windshield.

I use a laptop computer laying on the floor with a long HDMI cable running up to the monitor I use.

I think the cost for Silver Leaf is about $300. Well worth it for me.

Good luck, whatever you may do.

[discovery39s]

I have had a great many HEUI's apart that had 15K on them, others had 150K. Findings showed a variety of failures: Piston shoes, bearing, piston cups..... Attached you will see the many components that make up the HEUI pump. There is no known frequency when they will fail regarding mileage or a preventative timing to replace.

The failure of the $1,400.00 HEUI distributes metal partials in the common oil rail and straight to the injectors. Once the common oil rail is polluted with contaminants it is usually not long before the injectors fail. This repair can and has cost the owner up to $8,000.00 at a repair shop to now replace not only the HEUI but also the injectors and much labor time to flush the head. [ATTACH][/ATTACH]

Stay safe and have a great day

[discovery39s]

Please folks, don't let people convince you that the HEUI fails due to "dirty oil".
Most, not all, have failed due to a component failing: fracture, spring breakage....
Less then 2% I have had apart showed signs of lubrication failure.

NOT saying clean oil isn't a good thing. What I am saying is that clean oil or not, many other failures can a do happen within the HEUI that most people never investigate the root cause. They pull one off the shelf, install it in your coach and off you go. For those that consider themselves experts at HEUI failures, ask them one thing: "How many they have had apart to prove the failure". Not many I'm sure.

If I was asked to pay $8,000.00 to repair my engine due to a HEUI failure, I would be asking many questions on WHY did it fail.

So please, it's a poor design from the start. Don't let people convince you it's only about dirty oil. It is not.

Stay safe

[tropical36]

Originally Posted by discovery39s

Please folks, don't let people convince you that the HEUI fails due to "dirty oil".
Most, not all, have failed due to a component failing: fracture, spring breakage....
Less then 2% I have had apart showed signs of lubrication failure.

NOT saying clean oil isn't a good thing. What I am saying is that clean oil or not, many other failures can a do happen within the HEUI that most people never investigate the root cause. They pull one off the shelf, install it in your coach and off you go. For those that consider themselves experts at HEUI failures, ask them one thing: "How many they have had apart to prove the failure". Not many I'm sure.

If I was asked to pay $8,000.00 to repair my engine due to a HEUI failure, I would be asking many questions on WHY did it fail.

So please, it's a poor design from the start. Don't let people convince you it's only about dirty oil. It is not.

Stay safe

I think they're just saying that there's evidence, that it lessens the odds of failure.
Just hoping that mine never gives up and the C9's do seem to have a better reputation, maybe cuz they're heaver built. I really have no idea.

[discovery39s]

Originally Posted by tropical36

I think they're just saying that there's evidence, that it lessens the odds of failure.
Just hoping that mine never gives up and the C9's do seem to have a better reputation, maybe cuz they're heaver built. I really have no idea.

I do not disagree that more frequent oil changes may extend the inevitable. I have had over 50 HEUI's apart to find various mechanical failures inside.
The two different models, round top and rectangular, the round tops I see much less of. My opinion is that they run at slightly lower pressure and that results in lower failure rate. Again, my opinion.

I will say the Cat engine is a marvel of engineering. They are built like a tank and very rarely do they have internal issues. Most failures are sensors or oil coolers on some. Beyond the HEUI, best engines built for the medium duty requirement.

Stay safe out there

[tropical36]

Originally Posted by discovery39s

I do not disagree that more frequent oil changes may extend the inevitable. I have had over 50 HEUI's apart to find various mechanical failures inside.
The two different models, round top and rectangular, the round tops I see much less of. My opinion is that they run at slightly lower pressure and that results in lower failure rate. Again, my opinion.

I will say the Cat engine is a marvel of engineering. They are built like a tank and very rarely do they have internal issues. Most failures are sensors or oil coolers on some. Beyond the HEUI, best engines built for the medium duty requirement.

Stay safe out there

I've heard that about the round tops and probably all because I have a rectangle model....lol
Always liked a CAT for whatever reason and made a point of getting one in the Coach I wanted, as well.
Still I think that a Diesel, for it's expense and duty requirements, should be bullet proof. Naturally that wound't make as much money for your everyday mechanic, so.........

[ftodaro]

This may be posted some place in the long thread, If you just are replacing the HEUI before failure if we assume that 1400 price tag what type of labor cost, and total cost for a PM replacement?

[discovery39s]

Replacing either HEUI is around 1.5-2.5 hours depending on coach design. It's not the replacement of but more accessibility to get to it. I'm blessed on my Discovery for the fact the 3126 is wide open due to the dual floor access points. One is directly above valve cover and the other above the fan area. Lots of elbow room.

Inspection of the HEUI during a PM will indicate any possible concern. The new style is pretty easy. Pop the top, use a clean pencil magnet and root around coil area most importantly. Have the technician wipe the findings on a piece of toilet paper for your inspection. IF you have metal present then you may want to consider replacement. When? It's all relative to the amount of time this metal was in the system. You really do not want to see any metal whatsoever.
Hope this helps

[Out N About]

Thanks George, then a pencil magnet it is for me! Seems like a reasonable approach, and if any significant metal is discovered, then it's on to a HEUI replacement. It's an uneasy feeling knowing that I could be driving an $8,000 to $10,000 maintenance bomb around, and as long as there are telltale filings around pre-failure in a majority of the cases, I'd then feel better about not replacing it out of fear.

[Cat]

Originally Posted by Out N About

Thanks George, then a pencil magnet it is for me! Seems like a reasonable approach, and if any significant metal is discovered, then it's on to a HEUI replacement. It's an uneasy feeling knowing that I could be driving an $8,000 to $10,000 maintenance bomb around, and as long as there are telltale filings around pre-failure in a majority of the cases, I'd then feel better about not replacing it out of fear.

If any metal is found inside the pump on the coil it is an indication, the pump is in failure mode. How much metal will indicate how far along the failure has progressed. It only takes one piece of metal from the HEUI pump less than half the size of a pinhead to cause a injector misfire. Much larger than the will cause the injector actuation solenoid to be open enough to cause the actuation pressure to drop low enough to cause a no start condition.
Removing the Heui head bolts and lifting and turning the head is an easy way to check for a failure. The HEUI head cannot be remove because of the wires that run from the HEUI head to the internal actuation coil cannot be removed. There is plenty of slack in the wires to rotate the head enough to check the coil.
Safe Travels

[Cajun2Stepp]

Where does the metal come from, the pump or internally in the engine?
Or both?
Would a strong magnet epoxied in the housing help any at all?
We always did it in race car oil pans, transmissions, and differentials, and they always picked up something.

[Cat]

Originally Posted by Cajun2Stepp

Where does the metal come from, the pump or internally in the engine?
Or both?
Would a strong magnet epoxied in the housing help any at all?
We always did it in race car oil pans, transmissions, and differentials, and they always picked up something.

The metal on the coil comes from the HEUI pump. The engine oil that goes to the HEUI pump is oil that has gone through the engine oil filter. There has been some problems with the engine oil cooler housing being warped and allowing unfiltered oil to the pump. This can aggravate in weaknesses in the pump.
But to answer your the chances the metal on the HEUI pump coil came from the engine are very unlikely.
Magnet in the HEUI pump? Well the the coil in the HEUI pump is a electric magnet and its always energized when the engine is running. That why that it is the place to look for the HEUI pump failure. So no I do not think a magnet would help. Safe Travels