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View Poll Results: Are you currently running oil analysis on your engine or your Allison transmission?
Yes. I'm a believer in oil analysis! 274 35.72%
Not at this time but I might if I knew more about it. 425 55.41%
No. I think it costs too much. 45 5.87%
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Old 09-10-2014, 05:05 AM   #715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by POPPASMURF View Post
I am in the throws of purchasing a 1999 Safari Panther 425. From the literature on board, it has a MH 4000 series transmission. The 1999 manual lists a single Allison filter #29526898. Is this the most current iteration of filter and does it only have a single filter (compared to the 2 filter 3000 series). Also, what would the capacity be to replace fluid with Transyd, and do you recommend the removing the return line at the cooler method to do the closest change to 100% Transyd?
POPPASMURF,

Filter systems are the same for 3000 and the 4000 Series transmissions. Both have (2) filters. One is the "Main" filter and the other is the "Lube" filter. Both insert into the sump on the bottom of the transmission. You'll need the new "High Capacity" filters and you should be able to get the correct part number from your local Allison dealer. You can find the location of your nearest Allison dealer here: Sales + Service Locator

Here's a brochure on High Capacity filters: http://www.stewartandstevenson.com/a...ilters2010.pdf.

You'll need around 10 gallons for a double drain and refill. Don't disconnect cooler lines. Instead, I recommend you use the following "double drain" procedure:
  • Drain the old fluid and change the filters (using the High Capacity filters)
  • Refill with TranSynd or another TES-295 approved fluid (check level with dipstick or shift selector)
  • Drive for 1/2 hour to warm and circulate the fluid mixture
  • Drain fluid again and refill again with TranSynd (check level with dipstick or shift selector)
  • Optional: Get an Advanced Oil Analysis Kit from JG Lubricant Services and take a baseline sample this will verify that you've done it correctly


That will do it.

Note: This is not meant as advertisement. Other companies also provide oil analysis but JG Lubricant Services are Allison experts.
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Old 09-21-2014, 09:20 PM   #716
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Did the fluid and filter change today. Was extremely easy, the only thing that seemed odd was I drained out 23.7 quarts (yes I measured it to be sure). The instructions say a 4" sump md3060 should be 19 quarts. Maybe because I did not warm it up and it had been parked a while some fluid drained back into the pan from converter?? Either way I'm glad I did the analysis and got new filters with synthetic in there now.
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Old 09-22-2014, 12:53 AM   #717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EBT531 View Post
Did the fluid and filter change today. Was extremely easy, the only thing that seemed odd was I drained out 23.7 quarts (yes I measured it to be sure). The instructions say a 4" sump md3060 should be 19 quarts. Maybe because I did not warm it up and it had been parked a while some fluid drained back into the pan from converter?? Either way I'm glad I did the analysis and got new filters with synthetic in there now.
On my Allison 1000 I will get 11 quarts if I warm it up before draining.

Last week I changed it after it had been sitting for a week and got 14 quarts.
I noticed this difference a couple years ago too.

If you let it sit for several days you'll get more fluid drained. I prefer sitting so I get a more complete change.
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Old 09-22-2014, 08:09 AM   #718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EBT531 View Post
Did the fluid and filter change today. Was extremely easy, the only thing that seemed odd was I drained out 23.7 quarts (yes I measured it to be sure). The instructions say a 4" sump md3060 should be 19 quarts. Maybe because I did not warm it up and it had been parked a while some fluid drained back into the pan from converter?? Either way I'm glad I did the analysis and got new filters with synthetic in there now.
Remember the 19 qts does not include torque converter. No drain for the TC so you must have got some of it out somehow. Full capacity of the TC and Tranny is about 29 qts with a 4 inch sump(I think). Would have to look it up to be sure. This is the reason for the double fill.
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Old 09-22-2014, 07:04 PM   #719
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Remember the 19 qts does not include torque converter. No drain for the TC so you must have got some of it out somehow. Full capacity of the TC and Tranny is about 29 qts with a 4 inch sump(I think). Would have to look it up to be sure. This is the reason for the double fill.
Makes sense. I drove it today to get it up to 190 operating temp and then checked the fluid and its about 3/4" over the "hot full" mark so who knows if the dipstick is even correct. (I checked and I dont have the electronic level check on the panel) I figure I put in what I took out and thats whats been in there for atleast 3yrs without issue so hopefully its the correct amount.
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Old 09-22-2014, 08:35 PM   #720
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Makes sense. I drove it today to get it up to 190 operating temp and then checked the fluid and its about 3/4" over the "hot full" mark so who knows if the dipstick is even correct. (I checked and I dont have the electronic level check on the panel) I figure I put in what I took out and thats whats been in there for atleast 3yrs without issue so hopefully its the correct amount.
I have a 2 inch sump so I measured 17 out so I put 17 back in. The electronics shows full and so does the dipstick, or pretty close.
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Old 09-23-2014, 11:13 AM   #721
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Why the double drain which uses twice as much ATF none of the transmission manufacturers recommend this be done? Double draining assumes that there is "bad" fluid remaining in the transmission with particles of something that does not get taken up by the filters which will be removed with the filter and dumped. GM for one warns against using the ATF flushing machines due to the problems they can cause but dealers will still use the machines as a way to charge their customers more for the servicing of their vehicles. Always it comes down to profits put ahead of best practices and using fear of expensive repairs to part customers from their hard earned money (at least for the 90% who actually work for a living). The only logical reason to double drain is to make more profits for the fluid manufacturers and their sales reps and others in the profit stream.
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Old 09-23-2014, 12:18 PM   #722
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Why the double drain which uses twice as much ATF none of the transmission manufacturers recommend this be done? Double draining assumes that there is "bad" fluid remaining in the transmission with particles of something that does not get taken up by the filters which will be removed with the filter and dumped. GM for one warns against using the ATF flushing machines due to the problems they can cause but dealers will still use the machines as a way to charge their customers more for the servicing of their vehicles. Always it comes down to profits put ahead of best practices and using fear of expensive repairs to part customers from their hard earned money (at least for the 90% who actually work for a living). The only logical reason to double drain is to make more profits for the fluid manufacturers and their sales reps and others in the profit stream.
I don't think so. Viscosity of the tranny fluid changes or goes down over time. With synthetic it stays up there longer and the only way to get to normal viscosity in the MD3060 is with a double fill since the TC can't be drained. For example in my Ford Truck I can drain it all since it has a separate plug for draining the TC. What you could do is a single fill but you would have to monitor the viscosity with a lab report. Remember with the MD3060 a single file only changes maybe 66 percent of the fluid.

My opinion but I have been wrong before.
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Old 09-23-2014, 12:30 PM   #723
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhornsun View Post
Why the double drain which uses twice as much ATF none of the transmission manufacturers recommend this be done? Double draining assumes that there is "bad" fluid remaining in the transmission with particles of something that does not get taken up by the filters which will be removed with the filter and dumped. GM for one warns against using the ATF flushing machines due to the problems they can cause but dealers will still use the machines as a way to charge their customers more for the servicing of their vehicles. Always it comes down to profits put ahead of best practices and using fear of expensive repairs to part customers from their hard earned money (at least for the 90% who actually work for a living). The only logical reason to double drain is to make more profits for the fluid manufacturers and their sales reps and others in the profit stream.
Actually Allison recommends the two drain/fill procedure except they say to do the second change at the normal non-synthetic fluid interval.
Also, Tom wrote the spec's for Allison and I'd really trust his advice on fluids for the Allison.
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Old 09-24-2014, 01:55 PM   #724
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I purchased a ts coach with cummins 500hp and 4000 allison trans. What samples do you recommend to start with, and what type of tests.
I would like to use your lab.
Thanks
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Old 09-25-2014, 07:32 AM   #725
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Originally Posted by goazugo View Post
I purchased a ts coach with cummins 500hp and 4000 allison trans. What samples do you recommend to start with, and what type of tests.
I would like to use your lab.
Thanks
I typically recommend that Class A owners check the following components as part of ongoing preventative maintenance and to ensure continuing trouble free operation and coach powertrain reliability.
  • Engine Oil
  • Engine Coolant
  • Transmission Fluid
  • Generator Oil
  • Generator Coolant

The oils should be tested with the Advanced Oil Analysis Kit (JGOA24) and the coolants should be tested with the Coolant Analysis Kit (JGCA21). The JGOA24 comes as a "3-pack" of test kits so it will cover the engine oil, transmission fluid and generator oil. So, you'll need (1) of the JGOA24 Advanced Oil Analysis 3-pack kits and (2) of the JGCA21 Coolant Analysis Kits for the engine and generator coolant tests. If you don't have them, you'll also need to purchase (2) pumps: one for Oil Sampling (JGVP01) and one for Coolant Sampling (JGVP02). These are durable multi-use pumps that come in a carrying case. They are a "one time purchase" item.

Use "IRV2" as the discount coupon code when checking out of the online store at JG Lubricant Services, LLC and receive 10% off the cost of the test kits.

Please let me know if you need anything else. Also, look through our "RV Webpage" at RV Oil Analysis | Leading RV Analysis Company | JG Lubricant Services. You'll find a technical paper about oils, some "How To" sampling videos, and other things that will help you get started.
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Old 09-25-2014, 08:08 AM   #726
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elkhornsun View Post
Why the double drain which uses twice as much ATF none of the transmission manufacturers recommend this be done? Double draining assumes that there is "bad" fluid remaining in the transmission with particles of something that does not get taken up by the filters which will be removed with the filter and dumped. GM for one warns against using the ATF flushing machines due to the problems they can cause but dealers will still use the machines as a way to charge their customers more for the servicing of their vehicles. Always it comes down to profits put ahead of best practices and using fear of expensive repairs to part customers from their hard earned money (at least for the 90% who actually work for a living). The only logical reason to double drain is to make more profits for the fluid manufacturers and their sales reps and others in the profit stream.
Elkhornsun,
The double drain is typically necessary to ensure that you get to the Allison recommendation for extended drain intervals and increased transmission durability and reliability. Let's say you were running an older DEXRON-III type ATF. In all likelihood, the old fluid has already lost most of its viscosity (fluid thickness). If that happens, or has happened, then you are more susceptible to wear and poor cooling effort. The fluid is used to lubricate and cool the transmission. If the viscosity is too low, the fluid can't properly support the gear and bearing loads and the cooling will be less efficient due to internal pump leakage. You can find out more about this here: http://www.jglubricantservices.com/d...ical_sheet.pdf.

The more old fluid in the system, the thinner it will be. Flushing the system is not recommended by Allison Transmission. It has to do with protecting the input pump from possible oil starvation. The double drain replaces more of the fluid in the torque converter, cooling circuit and controls and thereby ensures higher and much more stable viscosity and greatly improved oxidation resistance over a much longer period of time.

Bottom Line: It has little to do with cost and everything to do with protecting the transmission system and making it more reliable.
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Old 09-29-2014, 02:23 PM   #727
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Thanks Tom

I will get the test kits ordered! I appreciate your help.
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Old 10-06-2014, 02:42 PM   #728
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Acceptable fluids

Getting ready to change fluids & filters on 2006 / 3000MM , and deciding on fluids, I though I seen that as long as its TES295 rated its ok. Valvoline's synthetic TES295 is on sale ( $7.00 qt) at a god saving and was looking to use it. Its not on Allisons list but not sure if it matters.
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