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04-04-2015, 01:15 PM
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#1
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: SJV California
Posts: 34
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Trans seems to be running hot
Ok, on my 99 Windsor ISC 350 my trans seems to be running warm. Flat ground at 65 mph water is 175-177, trans is 200 on the dash gauge and 204 on the scan gauge D. Reading some of the treads, it sounds like everyone is running about 180+ under the same conditions.
I have had the fluid changed in the last 3 months, things where about the same before the change. We just returned from southern Cal, coming down the Grapevine headed north I saw it get to 227 with the pac brake on. Kinda got me thinking something maybe going on.
Any thoughts?
__________________
Kent McNiece
1999 Windsor 40SO
2 kids and wife.
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04-04-2015, 02:55 PM
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#2
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Senior Member
Gulf Streamers Club
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Cincinnati
Posts: 19,925
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Is it a rear radiator coach? When was the last time you sprayed the cool pack (radiator, inner cooler, transmission cooler) with Simple Green, let soak, and flushed out from both sides with a hose? Dirt and oil from the engine breather tube can clog up the cool pack and cause over heating.
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Bob & Donna
'98 Gulf Stream Sun Voyager DP being pushed by a '00 Beetle TDI
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04-04-2015, 06:41 PM
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#3
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Senior Member
Monaco Owners Club
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 14,497
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My 2002 Windsor temp usually runs below 170 unless I'm climbing hills then it will climb with the water temp but usually runs 10 degrees less. I don't think I've ever seen my transmission go above 190.
I know you have a side radiator but when was the last time that you cleaned it. I would suggest searching for the best cleaning solution and then cleaning.
I usually spray mine out when I'm cleaning the coach but last year I cleaned using a degreaser. I did notice a little dirty water coming out but nothing alarming.
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Jim J
2002 Monaco Windsor 38 PKD Cummins ISC 350 8.3L
2005 Jeep Grand Cherokee w/5.7 Hemi
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04-04-2015, 06:44 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club
Join Date: Aug 2013
Posts: 1,636
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Even if your unit has a side radiator it could be plugged with dirt etc kicked up from the rear tires, so a good cleaning should go a long way to lowering temps, either side or rear radiator.
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2012 Journey 40U (Our Incredible Journey)
2008 Dodge Dakota(TOAD) 2005 Honda Shadow in TOAD
AF-1 braking system
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04-04-2015, 07:23 PM
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#5
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: SJV California
Posts: 34
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I have cleaned it, but it was a about a year ago. I have not used the simple green. Is the trans cooler the first cooler on the out side or is it back in behind the others?
Yes it is a side radiator. We only have 60K miles on the coach.
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Kent McNiece
1999 Windsor 40SO
2 kids and wife.
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04-04-2015, 07:45 PM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cosby, Tn
Posts: 6,587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kent342
Ok, on my 99 Windsor ISC 350 my trans seems to be running warm. Flat ground at 65 mph water is 175-177, trans is 200 on the dash gauge and 204 on the scan gauge D. Reading some of the treads, it sounds like everyone is running about 180+ under the same conditions.
I have had the fluid changed in the last 3 months, things where about the same before the change. We just returned from southern Cal, coming down the Grapevine headed north I saw it get to 227 with the pac brake on. Kinda got me thinking something maybe going on.
Any thoughts?
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Your Allison temps should track approx with the engine coolant temp. Generally, after operating temp is reached then the transmission temp will be within 5-15 degrees above the coolant temp. Is the coolant temp you report of 175-177 off the scan gauge or dash. The Scan Gauge should be accurate. If the transmission torque converter is not lacking up as it should, that could cause elevated transmission temps.
One other thing that's kind of a long shot. Have you had your coolant analyzed. If your coolant gets highly concentrated then heat transfer ability goes down. If the coolant has a very high % of glycol then the transmission fluid cooler in the radiator might be unable to get the heat out of the transmission.
Steve Ownby
Full time since '07
__________________
Steve Ownby
Full time since 2007
2003 Monaco Signature
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04-04-2015, 07:58 PM
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#7
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: SJV California
Posts: 34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Ownby
Your Allison temps should track approx with the engine coolant temp. Generally, after operating temp is reached then the transmission temp will be within 5-15 degrees above the coolant temp. Is the coolant temp you report of 175-177 off the scan gauge or dash. The Scan Gauge should be accurate. If the transmission torque converter is not lacking up as it should, that could cause elevated transmission temps.
One other thing that's kind of a long shot. Have you had your coolant analyzed. If your coolant gets highly concentrated then heat transfer ability goes down. If the coolant has a very high % of glycol then the transmission fluid cooler in the radiator might be unable to get the heat out of the transmission.
Steve Ownby
Full time since '07
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Steve,
I just had the coolest checked and the surge tank replaced, all is good with that.
Not sure about the lockup of the torque converter, seem to run great. Takes off well and pulls long grades good also.
Yes I am getting the coolest temp from the scan gauge.
__________________
Kent McNiece
1999 Windsor 40SO
2 kids and wife.
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04-04-2015, 08:52 PM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2014
Posts: 4,645
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I just took my first long trip and had my VMSpc set up. I noticed my water temp ran between 190 and 210 depending on terrain and speed. My tranny temp was between 176 and 195 or so. I have no idea if this was good or bad. I drove flat roads and mountain roads up to a 6% grade towing my Murano. Outside temps were fairly cool, maybe 60s 70s depending where we were. My Excursion has a 300 HP ISB with Allison 2000 trans. I think as long as things cool down as you're going the systems are probably working fine. I assume it something was abnormal you'd get idiot lights.
By the way, at 210 water temp the dash gauge is just barely above center and not anywhere close to the warning range.
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2023 Winnebago Travato
2023 Airstream Flying Cloud BH 30'
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04-05-2015, 10:10 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Fleetwood Owners Club American Coach Owners Club
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 6,760
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My eng and trans are both right around 200.
__________________
2014 American Eagle 45T
DD 13, 500 HP
Pulling a Honda CRV
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04-05-2015, 11:27 AM
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#10
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Milford,CT.
Posts: 2,237
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Someone mentioned cleaning with simple green. Be carefully with it on aluminum. Simple Green says to allow it to remain in contact no more than10 minutes and rinse thoroughly. Or use Simple Green Pro HD or Simple Green Aircraft Cleaner, which is formulated to avoid problems with aluminum.
See the Simple Green FAQ here:
Frequently Asked Questions
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04-05-2015, 05:05 PM
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#11
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: SJV California
Posts: 34
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Steve,
do you think the fluid that was used could be incorrect?
I did not ask for anything special, should I have it changed and have the synthetic put back in?
__________________
Kent McNiece
1999 Windsor 40SO
2 kids and wife.
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04-05-2015, 07:08 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cosby, Tn
Posts: 6,587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kent342
Steve,
do you think the fluid that was used could be incorrect?
I did not ask for anything special, should I have it changed and have the synthetic put back in?
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In '99 the Allison would have had Dexron III fluid OEM. If it has never been switched over to synthetic then it most likely has a Dex III clone in it now. Dex III is no longer licensed by GM so the spec is meaningless. If you are going to keep the coach for some time I would fill with a TES295 fluid at next change. You will have to change it twice to be able to use the extended fluid/filter change schedule.
All that being said, since you said the temps were about the same before the fluid change, I doubt it's a factor. I'm suspicious that your torque converter is not locking up. Particularly since you said the temps went high on a down grade with the exhaust brake. It the converter was locked up the fluid temps should not increase. Especially since the engine temps go down & the transmission fluid is cooled by the engine coolant.
I've never used the Scan D. Does it report any transmission functions? The Silverleaf VMSPC will tell the gear achieved and if locked or open.
You might post this question to Tom Johnson's thread here on the Allison forum. He is primarily a fluid engineer but he knows Allison's very well & might have some advise.
Steve Ownby
Full time since '07
__________________
Steve Ownby
Full time since 2007
2003 Monaco Signature
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04-05-2015, 08:00 PM
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#13
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Member
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: SJV California
Posts: 34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Ownby
In '99 the Allison would have had Dexron III fluid OEM. If it has never been switched over to synthetic then it most likely has a Dex III clone in it now. Dex III is no longer licensed by GM so the spec is meaningless. If you are going to keep the coach for some time I would fill with a TES295 fluid at next change. You will have to change it twice to be able to use the extended fluid/filter change schedule.
All that being said, since you said the temps were about the same before the fluid change, I doubt it's a factor. I'm suspicious that your torque converter is not locking up. Particularly since you said the temps went high on a down grade with the exhaust brake. It the converter was locked up the fluid temps should not increase. Especially since the engine temps go down & the transmission fluid is cooled by the engine coolant.
I've never used the Scan D. Does it report any transmission functions? The Silverleaf VMSPC will tell the gear achieved and if locked or open.
You might post this question to Tom Johnson's thread here on the Allison forum. He is primarily a fluid engineer but he knows Allison's very well & might have some advise.
Steve Ownby
Full time since '07
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So, how would I have that checked? Is their something specific I should ask when having it checked?
__________________
Kent McNiece
1999 Windsor 40SO
2 kids and wife.
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04-05-2015, 08:26 PM
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#14
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Senior Member
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Cosby, Tn
Posts: 6,587
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kent342
So, how would I have that checked? Is their something specific I should ask when having it checked?
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Either a Cummins or Allison shop that have their computer support should be able to hook up to your engine or transmission ECM and take a drive or run on a Dyno. I would see who is in the area & call and have a conversation with the service manager. Most of those guys are pretty sharp.
Steve Ownby
Full time since '07
__________________
Steve Ownby
Full time since 2007
2003 Monaco Signature
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