Community Forums

Jmac00 · 02-11-2021, 04:18 PM

I am researching the 2019/20 6.7L Powerstroke and I came across a 'possible' issue with the CP4 fuel pump.

specifically the pump could fail at 80K to 100K miles or if bad fuel was added or contaminates could get in the lower end of the pump and destroy it, sending crap through the system, fuel rails, injectors, and so on. the repair for this issue could be in the $10,000 range

There are preventive 'fixes' for this, but im just curious if this is really a big deal, or am I worried about nothing

Thanx in advance

LenR · 02-11-2021, 05:41 PM

The high pressure fuel pumps in modern trucks regardless of brand or model will tear up if there is water, alcohol, DEF, or gasoline in the diesel fuel. Fresh fuel from high volume stations will help. Always get a receipt for a fuel purchase so you can go back on the station’s liability insurance if they pump junk fuel. The main problem is that contamination doesn’t provide enough lubrication in the pump with metal particles breaking off ruining the injectors. Ford got a bad rap back in 2011 to 2012 because they denied warranty claims if water/rust was present. GM was more liberal with warranty claims. For normal wear and tear without contamination Fords likely hold up better than the older GMs because Ford uses a lift pump to better insure enough fuel to provide lubrication. Ford added a coating to the pump parts in 2017 to make them more durable. GM moved off of the CP4 a few years ago. RAM had a CP3 for a long time with a better reputation, but used the CP4 in 2020 & 2021. Rumor has it that they are going back to the CP3 for 2022. Ford makes a fuel additive that adds lubricity—OPTI Lube also makes a well respected additive. Most if not all HPFPs last way past 100,000 miles. My service shop got one in that went 330,000 miles. The complete parts kit to fix a contaminated system runs about $3500. The rest is labor—Ford dealers are mighty proud of their labor costs. Independent shops probably are less. Statistically it’s not a big deal—if it happens to you, it’s a huge deal. People with problems post on line—very few posts from folks with no problems.

Billett Bee · 02-11-2021, 07:56 PM

I've got a 20 model ram. The 19s and 20s have the cp4 junk and the new 21 models left the troubled cp4 to what everyone believes is the cp3, but it is not the cp4. The ram forums that I'm on have reported dozens of failures between 3000 and 10,000 miles. Do not feel confident that it won't go out untill 100,000, you don't. We all have filed complaints with the nthsa. Ram cares came out with a post that something was in the works for all of us 19 and 20 cp4s. She wouldn't say what or when. A couple class action lawsuits have bein filed. If you do your research you will find that when it takes out the whole fuel system it can cost up to $17,000. The dealerships will argue to the enth degree it's contaminated fuel but 9.5 times out of 10 they will cover it under warranty while your truck sits in the shop for 3 months. It just a battle to get it done. The fuel in the u.s. is of less quality and lubrication than some other country's. Lubrication is the problem. There are several kits you can do to bypass, so it doesn't take out the entire fuel system and all contaminants just go to tank. Or you can do like the majority of us do and use a high quality fuel lubricity oil to meet and exceed fuel specifications thus reducing premature wear scar in the pump. I use hotshot lx4, its one of the top brands on the mkt and gives piece of mind until hopefully a recall or fix comes out. The last thing you want is to be hailing your fifth wheel in traffic and lose the pump and have no power steering and brakes, and yes this has happened to numerous people. Its a serious issue.

Jmac00 · 02-11-2021, 08:26 PM

I didn't realize Dodge was having such a big problem with the CP4

Billett Bee · 02-11-2021, 08:42 PM

On the 19 and 20 models, if you look at your fuel pump they have them marked with little drilled dimples to designate for themselves of the different batches that they put out so they can track changes in relation to failures. Most of us have several little dimples. In late 20 they came out with the most revised version wich is labeled with only 1 large dimple. I don't remember the correct terminology but the 1 dimple signifies that pump is either symmetrical or asymmetrical, can't remember wich one. They obviously know they have a problem though because everyone that either has a 21 or has looked at one say the pump looks exactly like the tried and true and proven cp3.

millsrv · 03-08-2021, 05:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billett Bee

I've got a 20 model ram. The 19s and 20s have the cp4 junk and the new 21 models left the troubled cp4 to what everyone believes is the cp3, but it is not the cp4. The ram forums that I'm on have reported dozens of failures between 3000 and 10,000 miles. Do not feel confident that it won't go out untill 100,000, you don't. We all have filed complaints with the nthsa. Ram cares came out with a post that something was in the works for all of us 19 and 20 cp4s. She wouldn't say what or when. A couple class action lawsuits have bein filed. If you do your research you will find that when it takes out the whole fuel system it can cost up to $17,000. The dealerships will argue to the enth degree it's contaminated fuel but 9.5 times out of 10 they will cover it under warranty while your truck sits in the shop for 3 months. It just a battle to get it done. The fuel in the u.s. is of less quality and lubrication than some other country's. Lubrication is the problem. There are several kits you can do to bypass, so it doesn't take out the entire fuel system and all contaminants just go to tank. Or you can do like the majority of us do and use a high quality fuel lubricity oil to meet and exceed fuel specifications thus reducing premature wear scar in the pump. I use hotshot lx4, its one of the top brands on the mkt and gives piece of mind until hopefully a recall or fix comes out. The last thing you want is to be hailing your fifth wheel in traffic and lose the pump and have no power steering and brakes, and yes this has happened to numerous people. Its a serious issue.

This above quote is dead on accurate information.

The CP4 Bosch Fuel Pump with a lift pump or not should be avoided like the plague. There are many that have no issues but why roll the dice? This Ram information alone should scare you away from the CP4. Ask GM Duramax owners with a 2011 to 2016 about this issue, and the pending litigation. Why Ford uses this pump on the 6.7 is a great question and one that should make anyone that does their homework run away.

Jmac00 · 03-08-2021, 07:13 AM

While researching all of this, I came across this "6.7 disaster prevention kit" by SPE Motorsports.

https://mdm-performance.com/product/...kit-exofilter/

it seems like a fairly reasonable fix to this fuel pump issue, with NO cutting of fuel lines or modifying the fuel system. other than adding the kit

I watched a YouTube video by TopCory, about installing this kit and it seems pretty straight forward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c326M9f8-Mo

HAS ANYONE tried this kit, does it do what they claim ? any input would helpful

Billett Bee · 03-08-2021, 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by millsrv

This above quote is dead on accurate information.

The CP4 Bosch Fuel Pump with a lift pump or not should be avoided like the plague. There are many that have no issues but why roll the dice? This Ram information alone should scare you away from the CP4. Ask GM Duramax owners with a 2011 to 2016 about this issue, and the pending litigation. Why Ford uses this pump on the 6.7 is a great question and one that should make anyone that does their homework run away.

thanks for the kudos, most of the time my opinion on forums get me destroyed, so ty.
I love my truck and there was no way for me to know at the time the 21 models had gone back to the cp3 but if I had only known, in would of definitly waited. The cp4 causes me a tremendous amount of grief and i check my recall list everyday in hopes that thers is one issued before mine goes cabluey. All you can do is try to mitigate the problem and use a high quality fuel lubricity adaptive, wich does seem to make the differance, or you can do a bypass mod but that doesn't lessen the odds of it going out just mitigates what it destroys and is more money up front than lube.
The other reason I wished I had waited for the 21 model
Cp4- cp3
Digital rear view mirror that turns into a camera while traveling
Increased hp and tq from 1000-1070 ft lbs, not like you would no a differanc

We always want more I guess

millsrv · 03-08-2021, 07:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jmac00

While researching all of this, I came across this "6.7 disaster prevention kit" by SPE Motorsports.

https://mdm-performance.com/product/...kit-exofilter/

it seems like a fairly reasonable fix to this fuel pump issue, with NO cutting of fuel lines or modifying the fuel system. other than adding the kit

I watched a YouTube video by TopCory, about installing this kit and it seems pretty straight forward.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c326M9f8-Mo

HAS ANYONE tried this kit, does it do what they claim ? any input would helpful

If I had one of these pumps this product would be a no brainer and a small price to pay for the added security. A manufacturers poor design certainly can be a great business model for the aftermarket, look at Bullet Proof Diesel for example. I simply cannot understand a manufacturer's logic in using the CP4 pump given its history? Is it money? If anyone knows please enlighten me. After GM's huge failure between 11 and 16 model years with this pump you would think others would take note? This was the sole reason I went with a 21 Duramax which uses the Denso pump and injectors, time will tell if that was a mistake

cletesingler · 03-25-2021, 06:42 PM

Been there, done that......my 2011 F350 with 80,000 miles blew it's HPFP and it was only $10,500 at a local Ford dealer, and absolutely NO, Ford would not cover it under the ESP extended warranty. Why, because they easily proved water in the fuel with rusted injectors and rusted everything in the fuel system. And number 1 lesson learned: fuel up at only high volume truck stops only, only only only. And no receipt needed if you are a member of Pilot Flying J as the receipt is online with the 6 cent discount.......And DEF is by pump next to the fuel.

carl2591 · 04-11-2021, 02:42 PM

that interesting story for sure..

I thought all ford diesels had a big fuel filter and water "catcher" system to prevent your kind of issues.. did you get a WIF (water in fuel) light? drain the filter along the way,, get any water out of the filter etc. ?? We fuel at a lot of costco which many locations pump as much as many truck stops, more or less, so the fuel is fresh and they have water separators, filters, on the pumps at costco's.

Wondering how you got some much water in the system to cause rust??

10.5K SUCKS for sure..

Quote:

Originally Posted by cletesingler

Been there, done that......my 2011 F350 with 80,000 miles blew it's HPFP and it was only $10,500 at a local Ford dealer, and absolutely NO, Ford would not cover it under the ESP extended warranty. Why, because they easily proved water in the fuel with rusted injectors and rusted everything in the fuel system. And number 1 lesson learned: fuel up at only high volume truck stops only, only only only. And no receipt needed if you are a member of Pilot Flying J as the receipt is online with the 6 cent discount.......And DEF is by pump next to the fuel.

millsrv · 04-11-2021, 06:30 PM

I have been doing research into the CP4 pump. Lubrication, is of course important along with clean fuel. That said the real issue is the design of the pump and why it fails. Good clean fuel will not prevent the failure the man explaining the pump design problem in the video states that "you could run engine oil through it and the problem still exists." The pump has a poorly designed cam follower that can rotate and cause metal to flow into the injectors and back to the tank. In this video this is clearly explained

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPFPf2EpxkE

This company provides a product that can protect the rest of the fuel system but does not prevent the pump from failing.
The bottom line is this is a bad pump and in my opinion should never have been used yet Ford still uses it and may deny warranty and blame fuel. Knowing this should be part of anyones decision to buy a diesel vehicle.

Billett Bee · 04-11-2021, 07:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by millsrv

I have been doing research into the CP4 pump. Lubrication, is of course important along with clean fuel. That said the real issue is the design of the pump and why it fails. Good clean fuel will not prevent the failure the man explaining the pump design problem in the video states that "you could run engine oil through it and the problem still exists." The pump has a poorly designed cam follower that can rotate and cause metal to flow into the injectors and back to the tank. In this video this is clearly explained

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nPFPf2EpxkE

This company provides a product that can protect the rest of the fuel system but does not prevent the pump from failing.
The bottom line is this is a bad pump and in my opinion should never have been used yet Ford still uses it and may deny warranty and blame fuel. Knowing this should be part of anyones decision to buy a diesel vehicle.

Everyday i drive my new ram hohd 6.7 loaded , i just cringe wondering is today the day. Luckily Ram seems to be warranting most of the cp4 cases but not without a dog fight first. I only go to busy high turn over stations and for every 10 gallons I pump, ill put in 1 oz of lx4. If it don't go out before warranty is up, I'll be replacing it with the 2021 version of the cp3.
You just never know though. They have gone out any where between 2500 - 10,000 miles and could cost up to $19,000 to fix the entire destroyed system, but worse could cost someone a life .
I've done my part,
Report and document to dealer
file a complaint to the nhtsa
We need a massive recall

BSHGTO · 05-10-2021, 04:27 PM

I`d like to see the article that Ford re-coated the internals of the CP-4 to make it less susceptible to self destruction on the 2017 and up. I've drained my fuel filter like your suppose to and never had a drop of water in it and I let the jar sit over night and check it in the morning to be sure. I've bought fuel from Md. to SC. at all kinds of stations and nary a problem or drop of water. I even put a 10 micron filter with water separator on the 63 gal. aux. tank I have in the bed and that has never produced a drop of water either.
So how is Ford denying claims for this when t has an improved fuel water separator in the late model system. How is water getting to the parts that self destruct when water is in the fuel? They are basically saying you put bad fuel in it and our system can`t filter it out so you pay for the repair. The amount of water constantly in the fuel would have to be significant and your water in fuel would be on after every tank full. I call bull and Ford is just passing the buck. So what are you going to do when the dealer has your truck all torn apart in the shop tell them don`t fix it and I`ll tow it 1000 miles home to fix it. Nope and they know that.
I've been reading about the disaster prevention kits all weekend and all of them can not prevent the CP-4 from destroying it`s self just prevents the shards of metal from getting to the injectors or back to the tank at best a 20 micron filter is suppose to stop the contamination but the final fuel filter is 4 micron on the engine from the factory. So how can bad fuel even get to the fuel pump to begin with.
I`m paranoid that the truck is going to leave us stranded in the middle of nowhere now and there is nothing you can do about it to prevent it.
I guess I`m looking for people that has had a CP-4 problem and their experiences in getting a timely repair done.
Shoot this sounds like the crap some people put up with at the RV dealer.