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Old 09-24-2022, 04:35 PM   #1
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2008 Winnebago Destination not starting

I have a 2008 Winnebago Destination 39w workhorse (gas 8.1 Vortec pusher). Has power, ignition lights up but not crank. This has been somewhat intermittent, but is not working now. Has an Allison trans and the selector lights up and also I can hear it shift when selector is pushed. The dash display has a gear selection, but it currently does not recognize the gear selected. Codes like (check trans, no CCM-TCM Comm, trans cam failure, TCM IGN Fail, LH and RH inj fuse-rel fail) appear on the dash. There is a click on a coil located on the right rear compartment behind fuse/circuit panel. It is on the upper left side.

Iíve had a class a bus tech check it out and it somehow started and displayed the gear selection on dash display. He does not know what he did to get it to work. Only lasted about a day- long enough to move rv in a parking spot. Now same issue is happening.

Anyone ever come across anything like this. Hoping for a simple loose connection in a comm link.
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Old 09-24-2022, 07:34 PM   #2
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Welcome to iRV2 .

Sorry your first post is about problems .

Is there a brand name on the dash shifter control pad ? Arens ?

info on your UFO Workhorse chassis should be available here .

http://workhorse.navistar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=574

On the side of the transmission do you see an NSBU ( Neutral Start Back Up ) switch. It's the switch that tells the starter system it's ok to start the motor; and the transmission control module what gear is selected .
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Old 09-24-2022, 08:01 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Skip426 View Post
Welcome to iRV2 .

Sorry your first post is about problems .

Is there a brand name on the dash shifter control pad ? Arens ?

info on your UFO Workhorse chassis should be available here .

http://workhorse.navistar.com/Default.aspx?tabid=574

On the side of the transmission do you see an NSBU ( Neutral Start Back Up ) switch. It's the switch that tells the starter system it's ok to start the motor.

I took a pic of the selector, not sure if itís going to upload.

I believe the NSBU switch is inside the transmission on this model. I had my son shift to neutral and park while I was under it. I heard and felt it shifting through some sort of actuator on the right side of the trans (since this is a pusher, the diff is in front of it- just to orient the positioning).
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Old 09-24-2022, 08:04 PM   #4
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I took a pic of the selector, not sure if itís going to upload.

I believe the NSBU switch is inside the transmission on this model. I had my son shift to neutral and park while I was under it. I heard and felt it shifting through some sort of actuator on the right side of the trans (since this is a pusher, the diff is in front of it- just to orient the positioning).
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Old 09-24-2022, 08:10 PM   #5
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Do you have info on the Allison series of the trans , 2500 ?

I'm aware of two different , shift by wire systems for the 2500 series . pictures below .

Lower unit uses the NSBU the top one does not.
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Old 09-24-2022, 08:22 PM   #6
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Shawn , you shift pad picture posted while I was typing .

The top system in the pictures I posted has either a shift rod or a cable back to the control box , and I've only be able to come up with the name of the company that supplied the assembly , and no testing info .
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Old 09-24-2022, 08:34 PM   #7
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Quote:
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Do you have info on the Allison series of the trans , 2500 ?

I'm aware of two different , shift by wire systems for the 2500 series . pictures below .

Lower unit uses the NSBU the top one does not.
Itís an Allison 2000 6 speed

The pic below is where the shifting is coming from.
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Old 09-25-2022, 10:39 AM   #8
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Ok , we're slowly getting closer .

What you have is an Arens SBW ( Shift By Wire ) by Curtis Wright .

I'm thinking Workhorse put there own decal over the Arens one on the shifter; as shown in the second pdf , page seven .

Your Allison 2000 series must be a Gen 4 if the NSBU is internal in the transmission .
As described in the text in this install pdf .
I'll see what I can find on testing the internal NSBU on a Gen 4 trans .
Have you traced all wiring to the shifter and trans ; and separated all connectors and checked for corrosion and re-seated the connectors ?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf ArensSBWActuatorInstallationProcedure.pdf (2.36 MB, 3 views)
File Type: pdf ArensSBWActuatorRe-CalibrationProcedure.pdf (2.69 MB, 3 views)
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Old 09-25-2022, 10:59 AM   #9
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Quote:
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Ok , we're slowly getting closer .

What you have is an Arens SBW ( Shift By Wire ) by Curtis Wright .

I'm thinking Workhorse put there own decal over the Arens one on the shifter; as shown in the second pdf , page seven .

Your Allison 2000 series must be a Gen 4 if the NSBU is internal in the transmission .
As described in the text in this install pdf .
I'll see what I can find on testing the internal NSBU on a Gen 4 trans .
Have you traced all wiring to the shifter and trans ; and separated all connectors and checked for corrosion and re-seated the connectors ?
I have not traced and checked all of the wires to the trans. I figured that the trans is shifting properly, so I thought it wasnít the trans. Clearly something is not registering that the trans is working, as the dash indicator does not display the selection. I was guessing that this is stopping the ignition from completing its cycle to allow a signal to the starter and electronic ignition/fuel. Where would I start? If the selector is communicating with the trans, where is the communication issue that is stopping the rest of the starting procedure? Do you think it is a signal out of the NSBU?
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Old 09-26-2022, 06:41 AM   #10
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From your description of issue, would first check all the ground connections associated with the Front Chassis Control Module and the Rear Chassis Control Module. Your alarm messages indicate there is no info flowing from the front to the rear of the coach. The Front module deals with indications and body builders (Winebago) circuits as well as the ignition switch info. It in turn communicates with the Rear Chassis Control Module which deals with starter, fuel etc. Your message of Comm Link failure seems to indicate this is not happening. Also not sure which relay you are referring to that is making noise, but if is the Trombetta (Fat Boy), then there could be a battery problem in either the coach or chassis batteries.

Just my two cents, but have owned the UFO for 14 years and have had my share of "fun".

Best Regards
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Old 09-26-2022, 10:15 AM   #11
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Shawn ; Lash , sounds like he's talking from experience and has detailed a good starting point .

For info on the Winne side of things electrical , here's a link.

http://www.winnebago.com/Files/Files...ram/Wiring.htm

EDIT: Back to your original post ; when the mechanic was working on the coach and suddenly everything worked ( for a while ) If you know where he was working ; that would be the place to start .
Erratic electrical problems cost me most of my hair ; during 33 years working on Chrysler products .
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Old 09-26-2022, 05:57 PM   #12
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First- thank you to all who have helped so far. This has been infuriating. Iíll try to give an update along with some follow ups on questions.

I cleaned of the trans yesterday (using some chemicals and power wash). I was wiping it down and messing around with the wires on the tranny by the area of the pic I posted (where the NSBU would be). The battery had gone dead, so I put a jumper pack on it. I went to the driver compartment andÖ voila, everything was working and it started up.

I know that this is most certainly temporary, but thatís the Sequence. The tech that I had looking at it was all over the place trying to track things down. He is not an expert on RVís but is a Class A on cutaways. He just happened to go to the driver area while he was on the phone with me, to get me some info. While there, we noticed (on FaceTime) that the dash gear indicator showed the inverse on the park so I asked him to try it- and it started. He really had no idea what he would have done to make that happen as he was all over the place on it and it was just happenstance that he was at the wheel at the time.

As for where I heard clicking, Iím not sure which time you are referring to but I can give you the two places I remember.

One was at the left rear circuit/fuse panel it is the solenoid located at the top left in the pic below


The other area was the unit on the transmission where the shifting occurs (see previous pic with the unit mounted to trans)

Not sure if this helps. I sure would like to solve this. I had to go back to work, so I wonít be back at the motorhome until the weekend. Iím sure I have some connections to check around the trans to see if there is an issue there. Also, wondering if the voltage on the battery played a factor. After all, I did have the jumper pack on it when it worked. Iím sure itís a coincidence, as I donít believe the tech did not have the pack on when he got it started. But - just a thought.
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Old 09-26-2022, 06:40 PM   #13
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Shawn : ECMs , engine and trans , will do strange things below 10 volts .

I once spent entirely too much time on a vehicle that would come up with fault codes ; about battery voltage lost . Only to find out how sensitive the ECM was. '
Engine cranking would drop battery voltage supply to the ECM below 9.8 volts momentarily and set the code . Old battery load test spec; was to hold 9.6 volts or above for 15 seconds under a 400 amp load ; and the battery passed the load test .
But the code still set .

EDIT : Pick up a can of electrical contact cleaner , and spray any connector you take apart to examine.
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Old 09-26-2022, 06:44 PM   #14
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Thanks for the quick update back. The diagram you attached is for the Trombetta relay which is a notorious "bad actor". It is used to isolate the chassis battery from the house battery so that the house batteries cannot drag down the chassis battery if the house batteries get below a certain voltage. The Trombetta will chatter if the voltage from the battery is on the ragged edge.

If it were me, I would take the chassis battery to auto parts store and have it load tested. If the coach started with a battery pack, then most likely all the hardware is functioning as it should. Maybe the chassis battery cannot take a load when you try to start the coach. At least getting it tested will take it out of the questionable piece.

Best regards
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