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Pubtym · 09-04-2008, 05:18 PM

Has a thread started on this topic?

What does it take to covert an 8.1L gasoline engine to natural gas or propane? Do kits exists.. Estimated expense?

http://www.baytechcorp.com/

Pubtym · 09-04-2008, 05:18 PM

Has a thread started on this topic?

What does it take to covert an 8.1L gasoline engine to natural gas or propane? Do kits exists.. Estimated expense?

http://www.baytechcorp.com/

DriVer · 09-04-2008, 05:54 PM

Some of our fellow Workhorse owners in England have successfully pursued LPG conversions I believe.

I don't think that natural gas will have enough bang for the buck. LPG should be a better fuel.

MNRVer · 09-05-2008, 07:33 AM

The Schwan's ice cream trucks have been using LPG for years and they buy fuel in bulk to get a better price. I like the idea of less emissions and the fact that there is an abundant supply in our own country, but after paying $3.65 a gallon last week It does't look like it will be economicaly better.

RustyJC · 09-05-2008, 07:55 AM

A Google search on "8.1L conversion CNG LPG" returned 130 hits. Looks like lots of alternatives available.

Rusty

FrankO · 09-05-2008, 09:28 AM

There is a site that you can peruse that shows existing stations that sell Natural Gas. There is a wide range of prices and limited availability CURRENTLY. If our politicians are truely wanting to limit our importing of fuel to serve our vehicles, I think we should see a push to expand the distribution and delivery of Natural Gas. It will take a few years to get this to happen but the longer it is delayed the import of fuel oil will continue. Most use of NG is localized where company owned cars/trucks can get refueled at their own depot or in metro areas where there is more availability.
Prices in our area run $2.50 to $2.90. In WYoming (just a few stations), it is $1.29.
Check out the following link for your area.
NG Stations
Frank O.

Pubtym · 09-05-2008, 09:30 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by MNRVer:
The Schwan's ice cream trucks have been using LPG for years and they buy fuel in bulk to get a better price. I like the idea of less emissions and the fact that there is an abundant supply in our own country, but after paying $3.65 a gallon last week It does't look like it will be economicaly better. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'd really be interested in LPG mpg comparisons with gasoline.

RustyJC · 09-05-2008, 09:49 AM

Propane ~ 91,000 BTU/gallon. Gasoline ~ 115,000 BTU/gallon. Therefore, assuming equal thermal efficiency of the engine on either fuel, it would take 115,000 / 91,000 = 1.264 gallons of propane to provide the same energy as 1 gallon of gasoline.

CNG, on the other hand, contains around 1,000 BTU/SCF. Therefore, it would take 115 standard cubic feet of natural gas to provide the energy equivalent to 1 gallon of gasoline. At $1.16 per ccf (100 standard cubic feet - CenterPoint Energy September 2008 rate), if you had a home compressor, it would cost $1.16 x 1.15 = $1.334 for the CNG energy equivalent of 1 gallon of gasoline. Of course, this does not include any Federal or state road fuel taxes.

As a point of interest, CNG (methane) has an octane rating of 125, LPG (propane) has an octane rating of 105.

Rusty

Pubtym · 09-05-2008, 11:37 AM

CNG (methane) looks like best option..Thanks for all computations...

Typical oil market control of economy....very limited availability of CNG...tht needs CHANGE!

RustyJC · 09-05-2008, 11:44 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pubtym:
Typical oil market control of economy....very limited availability of CNG...tht needs CHANGE! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The issue is substantially more complex than that and is one we will struggle with in the future. Take E85 for instance - are companies going to set up infrastructures to produce, transport and sell E85 before vehicles are available that can use it? Not likely! Now that more flex-fuel vehicles are coming to market, more sources of E85 are popping up.

The same challenge faces natural gas, hydrogen and any number of other alternate fuels. How many CNG-powered vehicles can you buy off a dealer's lot today? Until the demand is there, the infrastructure to support it won't be widespread, either.

It's the proverbial "which comes first, the chicken or the egg" problem.

Rusty

Pubtym · 09-05-2008, 11:52 AM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RustyJC:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Pubtym:
Typical oil market control of economy....very limited availability of CNG...tht needs CHANGE! </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
The issue is substantially more complex than that and is one we will struggle with in the future. Take E85 for instance - are companies going to set up infrastructures to produce, transport and sell E85 before vehicles are available that can use it? Not likely! Now that more flex-fuel vehicles are coming to market, more sources of E85 are popping up.

The same challenge faces natural gas, hydrogen and any number of other alternate fuels. How many CNG-powered vehicles can you buy off a dealer's lot today? Until the demand is there, the infrastructure to support it won't be widespread, either.

It's the proverbial "which comes first, the chicken or the egg" problem.

Rusty </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exactly. However, diverting some of the tax breaks from oil industry...and adding incentives to CNG producers/distributers...as well as tax incentives (rebates) for buying CNG vehicle or conversion kits...and incentatives to auto producers for producing CNG vehicles..does slap the camel's butt some..

Meanwhile...foreign oil countries laugh as we starve ourselves....DRILL>>DRILL

max49 · 09-05-2008, 12:44 PM

OMG, It's hard enough to find a gas station we can fit in, propane is worse and harder to find, and I've never seen a natural gas station.
If you do convert, keep all your old parts cause you'll want them back.

edgray · 09-05-2008, 04:45 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It's hard enough to find a gas station we can fit in, propane is worse and harder to find, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Really ? Seems like every time I pull into a Flying J RV island for Gas there is someone parked there waiting to fill their LPG bottles. ED

Pubtym · 09-05-2008, 04:49 PM

<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by edgray:
<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">It's hard enough to find a gas station we can fit in, propane is worse and harder to find, </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Really ? Seems like every time I pull into a Flying J RV island for Gas there is someone parked there waiting to fill their LPG bottles. ED </div></BLOCKQUOTE>

Amen