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08-02-2006, 08:40 AM
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#1
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Senior Member
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 213
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Hi all - I'm the happy owner of an 06' 37DB Allegro Bay on the W24. Been on the road full timing with this unit for the last 10 months, stationary for the last 4 months. I run the engine about every two weeks for 25-30 minutes & the last two times I had to use the emergency battery start as the chassis battery was too weak to start the engine. I wonder - is the dash radio to blame? It's not on all that much, maybe 6 hours every two weeks. Fluid levels are OK & after it's run it cranks fine so I'm assuming the alternator is charging. Just curious if anyone has any ideas; I know it may also be a coach problem but thought I'd check here first. Thanks in advance.
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Fulltiming in a 2006 Ellipse 40FD
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08-02-2006, 08:40 AM
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#2
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Senior Member
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 213
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Hi all - I'm the happy owner of an 06' 37DB Allegro Bay on the W24. Been on the road full timing with this unit for the last 10 months, stationary for the last 4 months. I run the engine about every two weeks for 25-30 minutes & the last two times I had to use the emergency battery start as the chassis battery was too weak to start the engine. I wonder - is the dash radio to blame? It's not on all that much, maybe 6 hours every two weeks. Fluid levels are OK & after it's run it cranks fine so I'm assuming the alternator is charging. Just curious if anyone has any ideas; I know it may also be a coach problem but thought I'd check here first. Thanks in advance.
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Fulltiming in a 2006 Ellipse 40FD
Our blog
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08-02-2006, 08:51 AM
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#3
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Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Fulltiming in AZ and CA
Posts: 267
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We have a W22 and we have a switch on the dash that lets us select whether we have the radio powered by the Engine battery or the House batteries. Do you have something like that?
We also had a problem with our engine battery draining while plugged into shore power for any length of time. We found that there were several things that would drain it. I would put the steps in at night, or adjust the jacks once a week to do a super cleanse of the black tanks, or bring the bedroom slide in during a heavy wind storm, etc. All these things use the engine battery.
We wound up replacing the battery 2 years ago and adding a Battery Minder, that is in use whenever we are plugged in to shore power. Haven't had a problem since then.
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08-02-2006, 09:34 AM
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#4
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club Pond Piggies Club Appalachian Campers Mid Atlantic Campers
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Sarver, PA/Crystal River, FL/Shelocta, PA
Posts: 4,671
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Also your power awning runs off the chassis battery plus the Allison transmission and engine computer will drain your chassis battery.
On my W24 I use a completely automatic battery charger and leave it hooked to the chassis battery all the time. The charger will shut completely off when the chassis battery is fully charged. It is not one of the chargers that just drops to a trickle charge. I use a Vector Smart 2/6/10-Amp Automatic 12V Battery Charger $18.
I have the charger in the basement compartment directly to the left of the entrance steps. This compartment has a 120v outlet and a hatch for cords to go in and out. I ran the cables from the charge out the hatch and up to the chassis battery. I leave the charger plugged into 120v and connected to the battery all the time, even when we're on the road.
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Sarver, PA/Crystal River, FL/Shelocta, PA · FMCA 335149 · W3TLN 2005 Suncruiser 38R · W24, no chassis mods needed · 2013 Honda Accord EX-L · 2008 Honda Odyssey EX-L
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08-02-2006, 09:43 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Palisade CO
Posts: 3,588
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The engine computer, transmission computer and probably other stuff put a parasitic drain on the chassis battery. Mine will run down in less than three weeks.
When we are parked I plug in a "Battery Minder" float charger that keeps the battery topped off and won't over charge it. It's small - the size of the wall warts used to provide power for all kinds of electronics.
My batteries are under the step. There is a outlet on the cabinet wall right next to the steps. I installed a 12 volt socket on the same wall and dropped wires down to the chassis battery. The Battery Minder is plugged into the 120vac outlet and it's output plugs into the 12 volt socket.
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Clay WA5NMR - Ex Snowbird - 1 year, Ex Full timer for 11 years - 2004 Winnebago Sightseer 35N Workhorse chassis. Honda Accord toad.
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08-02-2006, 10:25 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Ottawa, ON / Yuma, AZ
Posts: 264
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My MH came equipped with a 5 watts Solar Battery Charger which works really well. However, I wanted additional assurance that the chassis battery would be always up to starting the MH. So I installed the Battery Minder sold by Camping World for$50.00. It is one of the best charger to desulphate batteries as well as automatically charging any type 12 volt storage battery without ever over-charging.
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2006 Dutch Star 4023,
TST TPMS, 2020 Highlander Titanium on trailer
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08-02-2006, 11:24 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
National RV Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 1,502
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Keith K,
I'll assume you are always hooked up to shore power. In that case and on my rig, the factory supplied dc power distribution panel has a solenoid that automatically connects the chassis battery to the coach/shore power charging/converter system. In the absence of sure power that same solenoid disconnects the chassis battery from the coach system whenever the coach batteries go below a set level. Additionally the two systems can be connected together with the use of a dash mounted emergency boost switch.
I would also assume any modern present day motor home would have a similar system.
That said, I would first check out the state of the chassis battery to hold a charge. Then check out the function of any similar dc power distribution system to determine if it is in fact sharing the charging system between the coach and chassis while you are parked and on shore power.
Certainly the radio and other parasitic loads will discharge a fully charged battery over time if no recharge is present.
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2003 34' Dolphin 5342, W22, UP, UPGBrake, F and R Track Bars, Rear IPD sway bar, Koni FSDs, Safe-T-Plus, Scan Gauge II.. 2004 Jeep Liberty, Blue-Ox Adventa..
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08-02-2006, 11:51 AM
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#8
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Sheboygan, WI
Posts: 5,642
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My previous coach was a 2003 Itasca Suncruiser, which was on a Workhorse chassis. Now we have an Allegro Bus and I've looked at Bays so I'm somewhat familiar with your system.
Your chassis battery and house batteries are two different systems. The ONLY time they get tied together is when the engine is running or when you hold the momentary emergency start switch to tie the two systems together.
The house batteries are charged by your converter or inverter/charger. The chassis batteries do not get charged. When the engine is running, the charge solenoid will engage and your alternator will tie the two systems together so that the engine alternator can charge them both.
If you use the battery disconnect switch to disconnect your batteries, you will only disconnect the house batteries. The chassis batteries will still be disconnected. Most, but not all, of the house 12 volt electrics run off the house batteries. However, the steps will run off the chassis batteries as will the slide-outs and leveling jacks. The awnings on your coach do not run of the chassis batteriers, they run off the house batteries. The dash radio is the same way - house batteries.
If you use your steps frequently, or operate the slide-outs, or re-level the coach you will put a drain on the chassis batteries. Even if you don't do these things, there are still parasitic loads that are placed upon your chassis batteries. As previously mentioned, the engine's ECM and the Allison transmission "brain" are the two biggest culprits. I found that my Suncruiser would last about 1 month until the batteries were running low.
The only thing you can do about that is add more juice to the chassis batteries when parked. I too installed a Battery Minder charger on my Suncruiser and then again on my Bus. The BatteryMinder is a small 120 VAC trickle charger but it also is a pulse style charger and it will keep your batteries desulphated and in tip top condition. I just plug it into a non-inverter fed outlet and it kicks in whenever I have shore power or when the genset is running, so I can keep it charged when boondocking as well. For $49.95 it's a great investment.
If you are not running the above listed stuff and your batteries still aren't making it past 2 weeks I'd suggest trying the BatteryMinder first. They may already be suplhated but chances are the BatteryMinder will bring them back. It worked on my Suncruiser. If not, a load test on them later on will determine whether or not they need replacing.
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Mark & Leann Quasius
2016 Cornerstone 45A
2020 Jeep Gladiator Rubicon
2021 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
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08-02-2006, 01:03 PM
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#9
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club Pond Piggies Club Appalachian Campers Mid Atlantic Campers
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Sarver, PA/Crystal River, FL/Shelocta, PA
Posts: 4,671
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by M&EM:
In that case and on my rig, the factory supplied dc power distribution panel has a solenoid that automatically connects the chassis battery to the coach/shore power charging/converter system. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
I have never seen a converter wired to charge both the coach and chassis batteries via a solenoid. The reason Winnebago does not do this is because the chassis and coach batteries are different types of batteries. The coach batteries are deep discharge and the chassis batteries are not. What happens if all batteries are hooked together is the coach batteries are overcharged because of the parasitic loads on the chassis battery.
This is why the chassis and coach batteries are separated with a battery isolator. The systems can be connected together in a emergency to start the coach via the dash boost switch. With a Winnebago the only way to charge both the chassis and coach batteries is via the engine alternator when the engine is running via the battery isolator.
Are you absolutely certain your Dolphin comes equiped with solenoid that automatically connects these systems together.
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Sarver, PA/Crystal River, FL/Shelocta, PA · FMCA 335149 · W3TLN 2005 Suncruiser 38R · W24, no chassis mods needed · 2013 Honda Accord EX-L · 2008 Honda Odyssey EX-L
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08-02-2006, 01:22 PM
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#10
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club Pond Piggies Club Appalachian Campers Mid Atlantic Campers
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Sarver, PA/Crystal River, FL/Shelocta, PA
Posts: 4,671
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The power awning on my 2005 Suncruiser runs off the chassis (starting) battery. The awning 15amp breaker is on the same panel as the electric step and solar charger breakers.
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Sarver, PA/Crystal River, FL/Shelocta, PA · FMCA 335149 · W3TLN 2005 Suncruiser 38R · W24, no chassis mods needed · 2013 Honda Accord EX-L · 2008 Honda Odyssey EX-L
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08-02-2006, 01:48 PM
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#11
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Senior Member
Freightliner Owners Club
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 213
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Wow - thanks for all the quick replies. Maybe I can use this as a reason to convince my wife not to play her Johnny Mathis tapes on the dash cassette player all day........but probably not. I'll start looking for a battery minder. Thanks again!
Keith
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Fulltiming in a 2006 Ellipse 40FD
Our blog
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08-02-2006, 02:12 PM
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#12
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Senior Member
Winnebago Owners Club Pond Piggies Club Appalachian Campers Mid Atlantic Campers
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Sarver, PA/Crystal River, FL/Shelocta, PA
Posts: 4,671
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Don't you have a switch on the dash so the radio can be run off chassis or coach batteries??
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Sarver, PA/Crystal River, FL/Shelocta, PA · FMCA 335149 · W3TLN 2005 Suncruiser 38R · W24, no chassis mods needed · 2013 Honda Accord EX-L · 2008 Honda Odyssey EX-L
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08-02-2006, 03:31 PM
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#13
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Senior Member
National RV Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Scottsdale, AZ
Posts: 1,502
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Tom N,
Yes, I am 99.9% sure. Neither battery system is at risk in this operation because the converter design is meant to be at float voltage in the mid 13v range for the long run as in shore powered hook ups.
Marty
Make that 100%, I just looked it up in my Dolphin NationalRV owners manual and what I described above is described there in more simple terms.
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2003 34' Dolphin 5342, W22, UP, UPGBrake, F and R Track Bars, Rear IPD sway bar, Koni FSDs, Safe-T-Plus, Scan Gauge II.. 2004 Jeep Liberty, Blue-Ox Adventa..
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08-02-2006, 05:33 PM
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#14
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Sheboygan, WI
Posts: 5,642
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Tom N:
Don't you have a switch on the dash so the radio can be run off chassis or coach batteries?? </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Tiffin doesn't have that switch. They only run the radio off the house batteries. My Suncruiser did have that switch, but I never really found a reason to use it and just left it in the chassis battery position. Tiffin differs in the awning power supply too. Itasca uses chassis while Tiffin uses house batteries.
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Mark & Leann Quasius
2016 Cornerstone 45A
2020 Jeep Gladiator Rubicon
2021 Jeep Wrangler Rubicon
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