Blast it, I think I need help from EdGray

[Ultra RV Products]

Please do not use the FG0061 on a 2004 or newer Workhorse. The fuel system used on these models regulates the fuel pressure at the pump whereas the FG0061 relies on an external fuel rail pressure regulator as used in the 2003 and older.

[RealNiceTent]

Originally Posted by donr103

It's seems like that is harder and harder to come by these days.. RealNiceTent.. give a shout out to those two places and let us know their names and city.. many of us need a good place for service.. please tell us.. it would be nice to have a safe harbour to find repairs on the road..

Carson Truck and Auto in Carson City NV, when I worked there Monaco used to send people to them, and call to tell us they were on the way.



Paramount RV in Reno, NV. They have been in RV Repair forever, When I worked for the other one, we used to send them interior work and paint and body. It is owned by two brothers, and they are characters.


They both have one other thing in common, you will pay a premium price for their services.

[RealNiceTent]

Originally Posted by Ultra RV Products

Please do not use the FG0061 on a 2004 or newer Workhorse. The fuel system used on these models regulates the fuel pressure at the pump whereas the FG0061 relies on an external fuel rail pressure regulator as used in the 2003 and older.

Jon, I responded because that is worth repeating, GM and Ford both made changes inn many of their fuel systems around that time. With the coaches it makes it even more important to know what year your chassis actually is, like in our case the coach is a 2001 model year, but the chassis is actually a 2000. This makes quite a difference in our case because the 2000 chassis is a 454 (7.4L) with the 4L80 transmission and 2001 introduced the 8.1L (496ci) with the 5 speed Allison transmission. While changes from one year to the next are not always that obvious, lesser changes like the fuel system regulation in 2004 can cause some serious hair pulling. I got out of the heavier stuff in 2000 when I took over a police fleet, did moving the fuel pressure regulator cure the common hot start extended crank? It has been a long standing problem in this coach. I intend to add additional heat shielding to the fuel lines to prevent the fuel boiling that occurs when the pump stops cycling fuel through the lines.



I see you are in Centrailia Wa, I lived there in the late Seventies, just about a mile from the steam electric plant. The big walking dragline was still running in those days,it was something to see! We moved back to Gardnerville Nv, in August of 79.

[RealNiceTent]

Edgray, I responded to your post earlier, but it's lost in cyberspace.



Apparently coach/motorhome builders don't do a lot of stuff they did in the earlier days. I remember seeing stretched frames, builder installed fuel tanks, all kinds of stuff. The chassis builders have become a lot more accommodating to up-fitters eliminating the need for such modifications. I don't know how many times I had to locate where the ALDL had been cut off and splice in a new one in order to do proper diagnostics and clear the codes, especially after OBDII when a battery disconnect would no longer clear the codes.


I got complete service records when we bought the coach. The original owner kept every receipt in a binder and he kept a hand written journal of everything done to the coach, what they towed, where they went, fuel fill ups, literally anything about the coach up to and including when he prepped it to sell. It is quite a journey and through the changes in the handwriting my wife says you can "see" where his wife's health deteriorates, and presumably she passes, and then as he ages his handwriting deteriorates as well until the time he preps it to sell. We believe he passed shortly after prepping it to sell. The one young man that was involved in showing it said that it had been his grandfathers, and the title was still in his name.
I don't believe the tank was ever changed or the pump as I have no record of it. However the pump was tested volume and pressure a number of times because of the typical hot start extended crank time and passed every time. i believe what I will find is the standard 75 gallon tank used on the longer wheelbases, and either a mistake was made on the build or build sheet. Heck, the USS Constellation and USS Kitty Hawk were built on each others keel, a mistake like the wrong size fuel tank is nothing.
We'll know soon enough.


Dave

[LETMGROW]

I can tell you from several years of working in auto dealerships you can't always trust the numbers on the line or build sheets. A good example is my own Workhorse P 32 built August 21 2001. The fuel tank shows on the build sheet as option # NJ9 249L, 75 Gal, single Fill C/MNT. I have run the tank down to where the fuel gauge was bouncing off the empty line twice. When I filled the tank the most it would take was 55.5 gallons of gas. I have never measured the tank or had to replace the fuel pump so I'm not sure if the tank is smaller than specified or the in tank fuel sender and gauge are incorrect.
My chassis may have been built on a Monday and the hung over assembly line worker may have grabbed the wrong tank and bolted it in. It doesn't matter much to me as I'd be ready to stop anyway before using all the gas in a full tank even if it was a 60 gallon tank.
Back in 1968 I was working in an Olds dealership and we had a new Cutlass Supreme come in off the transporter. The car was a solid maroon color. The interior however was a dark blue. The dealership owner called the Olds district rep. and asked what was going on with this car. It was ordered with a black interior. Some checks revealed this car should never have left the factory (Framingham Mass.) this way. There are only certain color combinations which should be built with the exception of jumping through hoops to no end. The dealer had an ad put together to advertise the car as a factory goof up with a discounted price but before the local newspaper hit the stands someone came in, saw the car and fell in love with it. The owner was stuck and had to sell the car for the price which was going to appear in the newspaper that evening but the factory gave a reimbursement for a portion of the price difference.

[CamJam1]

On the W-series, from what I've read on other threads it's the pre-2004 pumps that have the high failure rate. 2004 and later have the return line that helps cool the in-tank pump. Not sure if this is applicable to the P-series or not.

[Ultra RV Products]

Originally Posted by CamJam1

On the W-series, from what I've read on other threads it's the pre-2004 pumps that have the high failure rate. 2004 and later have the return line that helps cool the in-tank pump. Not sure if this is applicable to the P-series or not.

It is the same on P-series, all of them changed in 2004.

[edgray]

Originally Posted by Ultra RV Products

It is the same on P-series, all of them changed in 2004.

Hi Jon: In a previous post you wrote " The fuel system used on these models regulates the fuel pressure at the pump whereas the FG0061 relies on an external fuel rail pressure regulator as used in the 2003 and older.

I'm wondering if THAT may have been the reason so many of the early pumps failed. So many of us were told the failures were due to hot fuel returning from the engine rail, combined with letting the tank level run too low before re-fueling.

Appreciate any comment you care to make

[SmilingSam]

why not just use a HD chassis jack, should be able to rent/borrow/buy, and use 2x4's to support it so no need to drain tank, but if have to leave it while ordering pump, tape up the opening very well and leave above water level.

GL

[RealNiceTent]

Originally Posted by SmilingSam

why not just use a HD chassis jack, should be able to rent/borrow/buy, and use 2x4's to support it so no need to drain tank, but if have to leave it while ordering pump, tape up the opening very well and leave above water level.
GL

When I was working almost exclusively on motor homes, we used to do fuel pumps over a pit and lower the tank with a Gray air over hydraulic transmission jack with an adapter to support and control the tank. We used this on up to 120 gallon tanks. The problem isn't so much the weight, at roughly 8 pounds per gallon 50 gallons is 400 pounds. Even if you get a floor jack perfectly centered the slightest tip and the fuel runs to the low side, and the momentum when it "hits" the end of the tank will scoot the tank in that direction, tipping the tank further compounding the problem. I have lost smaller 16 to20 gallon tanks off the trans jack with it's support arms when this happens. It is a lot safer and easier to just pump the fuel out/drain the tank, then pull the tank. Getting pinched by a 5-600 pound tank full of fuel is an experience I can go without.

[RealNiceTent]

OK, so I finally got the fuel pump changed out in the motor home. It was a miserable bugger, I had planned to fire it up one way or another and back it in the driveway to do the job and ended up doing it right where the tow dropped it. I had to get real creative to drop the tank far enough to get the pump out. I can't guarantee the FG0061 was the correct pump, but the fit seemed perfect, it just barely hit the bottom of the tank and it was the same length out of the tank as the original, and that was my biggest concern. The pump itself did not fail, it was the connector on top of the pump. Since the tank had never been down the wiring update had never been done, and as the amperage demands on connector increased as the pump aged and wore the ground connector in the connection failed. This was a problem with these pumps in all the trucks & vans GM produced until they changed to the fuel pressure regulator in the pump. The new pump came with the update kit, so of course I did the update.

[edgray]

Originally Posted by RealNiceTent

OK, so I finally got the fuel pump changed out in the motor home. It was a miserable bugger, I had planned to fire it up one way or another and back it in the driveway to do the job and ended up doing it right where the tow dropped it. I had to get real creative to drop the tank far enough to get the pump out. I can't guarantee the FG0061 was the correct pump, but the fit seemed perfect, it just barely hit the bottom of the tank and it was the same length out of the tank as the original, and that was my biggest concern. The pump itself did not fail, it was the connector on top of the pump. Since the tank had never been down the wiring update had never been done, and as the amperage demands on connector increased as the pump aged and wore the ground connector in the connection failed. This was a problem with these pumps in all the trucks & vans GM produced until they changed to the fuel pressure regulator in the pump. The new pump came with the update kit, so of course I did the update. Attachment 342303

Attachment 342304

THANK YOU for this follow-up report. For those us that have never heard about the "update kit", could you please elaborate? Is it something that can be ordered and installed before an OE pump "fails" or does it not work on them?

[Ultra RV Products]

Originally Posted by edgray

THANK YOU for this follow-up report. For those us that have never heard about the "update kit", could you please elaborate? Is it something that can be ordered and installed before an OE pump "fails" or does it not work on them?

Negative, the newer pumps have a different style plug which is why you need the updated pigtail. The new pump would include the updated pigtail in most cases.

[edgray]

Originally Posted by Ultra RV Products

Negative, the newer pumps have a different style plug which is why you need the updated pigtail. The new pump would include the updated pigtail in most cases.

Thanks Jon/Alan. The “newer pumps” are still the ones that should be used on the pre-2004 model chassis, RIGHT???