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10-11-2008, 09:16 AM
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#1
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Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Everywhere USA
Posts: 2
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Sorry it has taken so long to post this, my wife and I want to let everyone know about our good dealings with you and Brazels. Workhorse refused to warrenty the #7 cylinder chipped the piston. They stated that because we had aftermarket work done by Brazel's that negated our warrenty. To the rescue, Mike Bronzini and Brazels They did not try to repair the cylinder but replaced the whole engine. The motorhome is running great, very nice dealing with standup people and company.
Thanx for everything - Bruce and Kathleen Brandt
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10-11-2008, 09:16 AM
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#2
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Junior Member
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: Everywhere USA
Posts: 2
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Sorry it has taken so long to post this, my wife and I want to let everyone know about our good dealings with you and Brazels. Workhorse refused to warrenty the #7 cylinder chipped the piston. They stated that because we had aftermarket work done by Brazel's that negated our warrenty. To the rescue, Mike Bronzini and Brazels They did not try to repair the cylinder but replaced the whole engine. The motorhome is running great, very nice dealing with standup people and company.
Thanx for everything - Bruce and Kathleen Brandt
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10-11-2008, 01:43 PM
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#3
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Moderator Emeritus
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: West Palm Beach, FL. USA
Posts: 27,563
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Great response from Brazell's and I am proud of them!
But merely having aftermarket work done cannot void your Workhorse warranty. The Magnuson-Moss Act specifically prohibits that. Workhorse had to have some reason (and engineering judgment) to claim that the Brazell mods specifically caused the #7 piston failure. Can you be more specific about what it was (in WH' eyes, at least?)
And I hope Brazell's will challenge WH on this issue - it is critical to all owners and aftermarket products.
__________________
Gary Brinck
Former owner of 2004 American Tradition and several other RVs
Home is West Palm Beach, FL
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10-11-2008, 05:18 PM
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#4
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Senior Member
Mid Atlantic Campers
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: McVeytown, PA
Posts: 2,259
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who actually paid for that engine ?
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Steve, Pat, Hakbar, & Root Motor
2007 National RV Pacifica 36'
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10-12-2008, 04:02 AM
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#5
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Jarrell, TX 76537
Posts: 4,501
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Brazel's carries product liability insurance just like any other after market OEM. I am sure that in the interest of customer satisfaction and to get the customer back on the road Brazel's replaced the engine and will pursue reimbursement via others means.
I have almost 20k on my UltraPower upgrade and I have my oil tested by Blackstone Labs and the reports I get are consistent with other 8.1 owners.
OBTW - I have tested almost all of the mods to UltraPower before most are ever installed on a customers system. I do not baby my coach when I drive it. If I need 4 grand to climb a hill that's where it goes. But, I do good maintenance and have my oil tested regularly.
A chipped piston, I my opinion, would not be caused by UltraPower. A burnt hole in the top of a piston MAYBE if they cranked in a load of spark advance and created a super lean condition. But you would hear pinging long before that happened and as far I know that is not an issue. I would suspect that burnt plug wire would a good suspect and that is NOT a Brazel's issue nor a Workhorse issue, but a coach manufacturer issue (bad air flow).
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Dale
AKA - Oemy
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10-12-2008, 04:13 AM
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#6
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Senior Member
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Ventura, Ca.
Posts: 333
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Gary hit the nail on the head. The more important global issue is the warranty denial by WH. Looking at the public profile of mustbebjb, I am wondering if the chassis was out of warranty and the denial was not caused by the Ultra Power. I hope Mike will respond when the time is right.
__________________
2019 Winnebago Vista LX 30T, Honda CRV toad, best Labrador Retriever Charlie Brown .
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10-12-2008, 07:14 AM
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#7
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Senior Member
Official iRV2 Sponsor
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: CENTRALIA, WA
Posts: 1,526
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The Brandt engine failed due to an intake manifold leak,this caused an instantaneous failure due to an extemely lean condition.This had ZERO to due with UltraPower,but Bruce was in a tough spot so we took care of him.Bruce had his coach programmed two years earlier without a hickup until that day.Workhorse took there stand that day & we took our's,so we stepped up.I think now that thier stance has softened a bit on UltraPower,Redlands has four or five engine down there with the same damage.Three of which were COMPLETELY stock!!
Rocky,
His coach was still within warranty!!
__________________
Jon Brazel
Ultra RV Products / Brazel's RV Performance
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10-12-2008, 07:22 AM
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#8
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Senior Member
Join Date: May 2007
Posts: 100
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Since there are other known failures the denial was most likely because WH and GM are still arguing over who will be responsible for the repairs. Brazel's being able to step up and handle the claim is stand-up, hopefully their product liability insurance will reimburse them.
Question for Mike, Does GM use a hypereutectic piston in the 8.1? If they do that is unfortunate because it is a known fact that hyper pistons do not like any detonation and will crack the top ring land off in a hurry.
Randy
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10-12-2008, 07:30 AM
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#9
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Senior Member
Official iRV2 Sponsor
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: CENTRALIA, WA
Posts: 1,526
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Knebdr,
That is the exact failure the engine had & we have seen a few others.
We did'nt use our liability Insurance we just ate it & learned from it.We had the engine shipped to us and had it gone through by three engine builders.All of them said the same thing Intake manifold leak cause extremely lean condition.
I don'y know if hypereutectic's are used in the 8.1's,but I will find out and let you know.
__________________
Jon Brazel
Ultra RV Products / Brazel's RV Performance
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10-12-2008, 08:13 AM
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#10
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Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Jarrell, TX 76537
Posts: 4,501
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If any of you remember how much I busted Mike's chops over UltraPower & UltraTrac when we first started this it makes you wonder why he ever offered me a job selling Brazel's products.
Here are few examples of why I became a Brazels's dealer:
Example #1
I put on a cheap tune for $150 and I got what I payed for... Half way to the 2006 IRV2 National Rally in Tenn I reinstalled my original ECM because the tune was so bad. Mike offered to buy my tune for what I paid for it and install UltraPower for the same price and the rest of the folks were paying. He could have said tough bounce and moved on. By the time I left Tenn went MN and back to Texas I was a UltraPower believer.
Example #2
I also built my own Trac Bar. Is it as good as UltraTrac? In function yes... In size no!
Mike offered me a opportunity to sell Brazel's products at my own pace. It works for me and it works for Brazel's. To that end I purchased a front and rear UltraTrac bars and installed them, as I don't sell what I don't test and/or use.
Example #3
I will be removing my Steer Safe and installing a Safety Plus when I get home. I will then be able to report what the differences are.
OBTW - I do not get these products for free. I have pay for them just like the rest of you.
The Bottom line here is... Brazel's stands behind their products and customer satisfaction is #1.
__________________
Dale
AKA - Oemy
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10-12-2008, 08:35 AM
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#11
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Senior Member
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Pacific Northwest or SoCal
Posts: 3,035
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by RV Roamer:
But merely having aftermarket work done cannot void your Workhorse warranty. The Magnuson-Moss Act specifically prohibits that. Workhorse had to have some reason (and engineering judgment) to claim that the Brazell mods specifically caused the #7 piston failure. Can you be more specific about what it was (in WH' eyes, at least?) </div></BLOCKQUOTE>
Gary while this is true, keep in mind the consumer will always lose. The manufacturer will take the "Sue Me" attitude and you will spend way over the repair bill in attorney fees.
Fred
__________________
Fred and Bonnie
2005 Dolphin LX 6375
Abby, Ruffles & Scarlett, "The Cats"
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10-12-2008, 09:34 AM
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#12
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Senior Member
Official iRV2 Sponsor
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: CENTRALIA, WA
Posts: 1,526
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Great Job at the WCMC rally Dale!!!
Did you hear anythin from WH regarding the Engine issue??
__________________
Jon Brazel
Ultra RV Products / Brazel's RV Performance
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10-12-2008, 09:44 AM
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#13
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Moderator Emeritus
Winnebago Owners Club Workhorse Chassis Owner Coastal Campers Carolina Campers
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: Conway, SC
Posts: 23,641
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<BLOCKQUOTE class="ip-ubbcode-quote"><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-title">quote:</div><div class="ip-ubbcode-quote-content">Originally posted by Fred and Bonnie:
... keep in mind the consumer will always lose. </div></BLOCKQUOTE>Fred, I think what we see here is a success story. Vehicle is on the road and the owner is rockin!
__________________
03 Adventurer 38G, Workhorse W22
F&R Track Bars, Safety+ , Ultrapower, Taylor Extremes, SGII
TST 507, Blue Ox, SMI, Koni FSD, CrossFire
RV/MH Hall of Fame - Lifetime Member
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10-12-2008, 11:08 AM
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#14
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Senior Member
Workhorse Chassis Owner
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Roving, Datastorm users 3192
Posts: 755
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I have just two (or 3) comments to make in this thread
1: Someone said they carry insurance just like all the other after market folks... I strongly suspect a few of the OTHERS, carry "Fly by night" insurance (Come dark, they gone) Not the kind where you pay premiums.. (This puts Barzel's in the "GOOD" group)
2: Out of six engines with identical damage, THREE were 100% stock.. Strong argument for the problem NOT being caused by Ultra Power.
M-M does indeed require that Workhorse honor the warantee UNLESS they can prove Mike caused the problem, However they have the engineers, they have the lawyers, they pay the engneers to say "oh, Ultra Power caused the problem" and.. Who is the court going to believe? Sometimes they believe the petitioner, but it is not an easy road to travel. I have seen several examples of this in other areas.. It is truly shocking what SOME companies will do to get away with it. (NOTE: This is only the 2nd Workhorse denial I have heard of. the other one was NOT a Brazel's issue and likely was due to the after-market mods)
3: I decided that next time I have money (Which is not looking to be soon) I'm going to pay Mike a visit and have him do the upgrade. This thread is making me feel much better about that decision.. Brazel's stands behind the work. That means a LOT!!!
__________________
Nothing adds excitement like something that is none of your business.
2005 Damon Intruder 377W Radio Active as WA8YXM
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